Todd780
OverCamper
Out of curiosity, what is your payload on a Tradesman with the Power Wagon package? What are you towing for a trailer, an RV?
Will Jeep and Ram Truck Prices Take a Steep Dive Soon?
- Thread starter AbleGuy
- Start date
85_Ranger4x4
Well-known member
Once upon a time there was a much larger price spread... I ought to play with it again to see if there is something different between Canada and US though.
I was poking at it early this year and I don't think PW was an option, just a trim.
Todd780
OverCamper
It's possible it's different. I know for 2024 and up, in Canada you can get an F150 SuperCrew 6.5" box with the black appearance pkg which swaps out chrome for body color bumpers & door handles plus gets you the console shift. Kind of like the old 'Sport' package. That's not an option in the US. So, if you want a SuperCrew 6.5" bed, you're stuck with chrome and a column shifter.
Another reason to move to Canada!
Todd780
OverCamper
The 1st time you feel -50 Celsius (-58 Fahrenheit ) you'll be running for the exit. I know every winter I question why I still live here....
Plus, riding & camping season is only 6 months... My bike and travel trailer are already put away for the winter...
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-50's back in my winter exercises at Ft. Drum, upstate NY. Stayed in a tent and a snow cave, so I should be fine serving time for some gun violation...
85_Ranger4x4
Well-known member
I'd hardly call that "stuck" lol. Add in a split bench and you have my truck.
I like my collum shift, with a auto you put in gear and drive, I don't need the thing taking up space in a console to just sit there.
Todd780
OverCamper
Yes, but before you had the option to choose. Now you don't. Well, I do but ya'll south of the border don't.
1565 lbs. I see a lot of the heavily optioned "real" Power Wagons down in the 1250ish range, which I think would border on impractical even on a smaller half ton.
Mostly I've been towing a 6x12 dual axle enclosed cargo trailer, about 1800 lbs empty (lots of E-track installed). Usually 4000-6500lbs total trailer weight. Moving stuff like machine tools, garage equipment, household goods, and so on.
I credit the black Sumosprings with preventing rear squat and bobbing up and down that would creep in even if you're under the payload. Bit harsh empty over speed bumps but you can't have everything. I do have a Sherline tongue scale so I can keep tabs on my tongue weight. With the cargo trailer really loaded down and a couple of kids, being conservative I can toss up to another 325lbs in the bed and stay under the sticker payload, usually being closer to the 10% end of trailer weight on the tongue.
Other trailer is a 5x10 enclosed cargo conversion w/ windows, A/C, bed platform, etc, that is about 1700 empty. It's got a single axle limiting it's payload so that's generally 3500 lbs and under - a midsize will tow it pretty comfortably, so the Ram won't even notice it's there.
Got another thousand miles towing on it now - just set the cruise control and go. I would not have any qualms about planning to tow 7k-10k lbs with this as long as I'm driving solo and don't have the bed loaded, and have a proper weight distributing hitch.
Wish.com Power Wagon vs "real" Power Wagon in the US seems to be a ~20K USD difference in sticker price. Although it's depressing to know about 3-4 years ago you could get the more expensive trim for less than the cheap one sells for now.
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AbleGuy
Officious Intermeddler
Its’s sad to read the continuing decline of Stellantis, especially considering how popular Jeeps are with forum members (Ram trucks too). But this article today shows a disconcerting downward trend in brand popularity (likely due to affordability and model availability) tied clearly to the concurrent disconcerting trends of raising prices faster than inflation and lowering consumer choices.
None of us can accurately read the tea leaves, but…what do you guys think? What’s the future of overlanding in a newer Jeep or Ram 5x4 truck?
The below is partial coverage from this articlem
The Jeep Gladiator was unveiled to great fanfare by then-owner Fiat Chrysler in 2018, the first pickup model for the hot brand in more than a quarter of a century. And at first it seemed like it might live up to the hype.
After rolling out in 2019, sales doubled in 2020, reaching nearly 90,000 in the US despite pandemic-induced production issues and making it one of the few winners that troubled year.
But the success was short-lived.
After Fiat Chrysler’s merger with PSA Group in early 2021 created Stellantis, the company began focusing on higher-priced, higher-margin vehicles, using limited supplies of parts such as computer chips to build the pricier versions of its vehicles. That left many traditional Jeep and other Fiat Chrysler buyers looking elsewhere.
A search of Jeep’s site shows only a few Gladiators with a sticker price below $40,000 nationwide, none for less than $39,790. Sticker prices for some Gladiators on dealer lots now go as high as $72,000.
Gladiator sales have fallen steadily from the 2020 peak as a result and are down another 21% so far this year. Jeep overall has become a shell of its former self, with sales down 36% from before the pandemic. Stellantis managed to turn off customers to what was one of the hottest and most desirable brands by jacking up prices and mismanaging its lineup.
The problems at Stellantis are not limited to Gladiator or even to Jeep. The Ram truck brand has also struggled to keep up with truck offerings from General Motors and Ford. Dodge has cut some of its popular models in anticipation of electric versions. Chrysler, once the company’s core brand, is essentially down to one model, the Pacifica minivan, arguably the weakest segment of the US market.
The day after the US presidential election, Stellantis announced it would cut one of two shifts at its Toledo Assembly Complex South plant, which builds the Gladiator, indefinitely laying off about 1,100 workers.
“These are difficult actions to take, but they are necessary to enable the company to regain its competitive edge and eventually return production to prior levels,” said the company’s statement.
By the fourth quarter of 2023, the average Stellantis vehicle sold for $58,000 in the US, according to data from Edmunds, by far the highest in the industry. While Stellantis’ average price has declined since then, it was still the second highest average price in the industry, at just under $55,000 in the third quarter. That was just behind Ford Motor, including its luxury brand Lincoln.
And the problem is felt even more acutely among typical Jeep buyers.
Traditionally Stellantis buyers had lower credit scores, which increased their auto loan interest rates and limited their spending power, said Jessica Caldwell, head of industry insights for Edmunds. Those buyers have struggled to keep up with Stellantis’s higher prices.
“They just can’t afford this,” she said. “That’s the wall they’re hitting. Fundamentally they have a product mismatch for the market.”
“They moved to a price point that’s too high for their typical customers,” added Charlie Chesbrough, senior economist for Cox Automotive.
Stellantis also said it would lay off about 1,200 workers at its Warren, Michigan truck plant, coinciding with the discontinuation of the entry-levelRam 1500 Classic pickup. The elimination of a shift at that plant took effect last month.
“We are writing this letter on behalf of the entire US dealer network and its employees,” the letter began. “The intent of this letter is to sound an alarm – an alarm not only to you, but to the Stellantis board of directors, your employees, your investors, and suppliers.”
The Stellantis National Dealer Council had been pleading with the company behind the scenes for two years already, the letter said. The company was headed for disaster – not just for the dealers themselves, but for everyone involved.
“Now, that disaster has arrived,” the letter said.
The company’s relentless focus on short-term profits for 2023 had devastating consequences for Stellantis, Farris wrote. Market share had been slashed nearly in half. The share price was falling. Plants were closing. Thousands were being laid off. Key executives were “fleeing” the company.
“Everyone will suffer the consequences of these disastrous choices,” the letter said.
In response Stellantis issued a statement saying said it took “absolute exception” to Farris’ letter, saying it has taken steps to reduce excess inventory, and that sales were improving in the latter part of the third quarter as a result.
“We don’t believe that public personal attacks, such as the one in the open letter from the NDC president against our CEO, are the most effective way to solve problems,” said its statement.
The company’s workers are livid, too.
The United Auto Workers union is considering a new strike at Stellantis. The company isn’t living up to the contract, the union alleges. Stellantis, for its part, denies the accusation, and says it will fight any new strike.
(The article continues at the above referenced link)
None of us can accurately read the tea leaves, but…what do you guys think? What’s the future of overlanding in a newer Jeep or Ram 5x4 truck?
The below is partial coverage from this articlem
The Jeep Gladiator was unveiled to great fanfare by then-owner Fiat Chrysler in 2018, the first pickup model for the hot brand in more than a quarter of a century. And at first it seemed like it might live up to the hype.
After rolling out in 2019, sales doubled in 2020, reaching nearly 90,000 in the US despite pandemic-induced production issues and making it one of the few winners that troubled year.
But the success was short-lived.
After Fiat Chrysler’s merger with PSA Group in early 2021 created Stellantis, the company began focusing on higher-priced, higher-margin vehicles, using limited supplies of parts such as computer chips to build the pricier versions of its vehicles. That left many traditional Jeep and other Fiat Chrysler buyers looking elsewhere.
A search of Jeep’s site shows only a few Gladiators with a sticker price below $40,000 nationwide, none for less than $39,790. Sticker prices for some Gladiators on dealer lots now go as high as $72,000.
Gladiator sales have fallen steadily from the 2020 peak as a result and are down another 21% so far this year. Jeep overall has become a shell of its former self, with sales down 36% from before the pandemic. Stellantis managed to turn off customers to what was one of the hottest and most desirable brands by jacking up prices and mismanaging its lineup.
The problems at Stellantis are not limited to Gladiator or even to Jeep. The Ram truck brand has also struggled to keep up with truck offerings from General Motors and Ford. Dodge has cut some of its popular models in anticipation of electric versions. Chrysler, once the company’s core brand, is essentially down to one model, the Pacifica minivan, arguably the weakest segment of the US market.
The day after the US presidential election, Stellantis announced it would cut one of two shifts at its Toledo Assembly Complex South plant, which builds the Gladiator, indefinitely laying off about 1,100 workers.
“These are difficult actions to take, but they are necessary to enable the company to regain its competitive edge and eventually return production to prior levels,” said the company’s statement.
Stellantis customers hit the wall
Virtually every model sold by Stellantis is showing double-digit year-over-year sales declines, as high prices left dealer lots jammed with inventory.By the fourth quarter of 2023, the average Stellantis vehicle sold for $58,000 in the US, according to data from Edmunds, by far the highest in the industry. While Stellantis’ average price has declined since then, it was still the second highest average price in the industry, at just under $55,000 in the third quarter. That was just behind Ford Motor, including its luxury brand Lincoln.
And the problem is felt even more acutely among typical Jeep buyers.
Traditionally Stellantis buyers had lower credit scores, which increased their auto loan interest rates and limited their spending power, said Jessica Caldwell, head of industry insights for Edmunds. Those buyers have struggled to keep up with Stellantis’s higher prices.
“They just can’t afford this,” she said. “That’s the wall they’re hitting. Fundamentally they have a product mismatch for the market.”
“They moved to a price point that’s too high for their typical customers,” added Charlie Chesbrough, senior economist for Cox Automotive.
Stellantis also said it would lay off about 1,200 workers at its Warren, Michigan truck plant, coinciding with the discontinuation of the entry-levelRam 1500 Classic pickup. The elimination of a shift at that plant took effect last month.
Dealers and workers both furious
Three months ago, the head of Stellantis’ dealer association, Kevin Farris, wrote an open letter to CEO Carlos Tavares.“We are writing this letter on behalf of the entire US dealer network and its employees,” the letter began. “The intent of this letter is to sound an alarm – an alarm not only to you, but to the Stellantis board of directors, your employees, your investors, and suppliers.”
The Stellantis National Dealer Council had been pleading with the company behind the scenes for two years already, the letter said. The company was headed for disaster – not just for the dealers themselves, but for everyone involved.
“Now, that disaster has arrived,” the letter said.
The company’s relentless focus on short-term profits for 2023 had devastating consequences for Stellantis, Farris wrote. Market share had been slashed nearly in half. The share price was falling. Plants were closing. Thousands were being laid off. Key executives were “fleeing” the company.
“Everyone will suffer the consequences of these disastrous choices,” the letter said.
In response Stellantis issued a statement saying said it took “absolute exception” to Farris’ letter, saying it has taken steps to reduce excess inventory
“We don’t believe that public personal attacks, such as the one in the open letter from the NDC president against our CEO, are the most effective way to solve problems,” said its statement.
The company’s workers are livid, too.
The United Auto Workers union is considering a new strike at Stellantis. The company isn’t living up to the contract, the union alleges. Stellantis, for its part, denies the accusation
(The article continues at the above referenced link)
Todd780
OverCamper
Shocking to hear they're in decline. I'd figure they'd have the 5x4 market cornered....
ExpoMike
Well-known member
Yep, this is what happens when you price your customers out of the market. Somehow all of the auto manufacturers are not watching the prices for everything is going up, at a much higher rate than people's incomes. When it comes to the end, people have to make choices on how their money is spent and for many, these ridiculous prices are beyond their ability. I guess when the 1% sits in their glass towers, they don't feel the pain of the average person, so they don't have the incentive to do what's in the better interest of the average person. It is sad to see what is happening to the auto industry as a whole but they have put themselves exactly where they are.
driveby
Active member
Well as a near(ish) term buyer of a 4x4 Class C on a 5500 chassis I'm concerned! And the RV manufacturer in question is also concerned. So much so they are likely to move to Ford F550/600. So now I sit back and wait with popcorn in hand and park my $$ until there is some clarity in the market. No way I'm going to drop some serious $$ into a brand that might not be there to support me. Low costs discounted/cheap chassis is not a good deal if you can't use it.... Same for the TOAD. Was gonna be a Jeep, now more than likely a Bronco. At least for that a smoking deal on an older model that has after market support isn't as scary an option.
renottse
Member
Will Jeep and Ram Truck Prices Take a Steep Dive Soon?
Soon has become now.Saw $ 20,000 off for the first time last week.
Seeing 9K to 12K off as standard discount.
There’s a dealer offering 8K off new 2025 orders, not a RAM offer.
Now that 2025 orders are open the standard discount may become larger.