Winch mount weld or bolt? Which is stronger?

[jjdavids]

I have 9000 lbs superwinch mounted to the front on my 85 4Runner with a homemade mount similar to trail gears winch mount. Was at the river and some dumb kid in a stock frontier found the deepest mud hole around to go through. After explaining to him how stupid he was for attemping anything like that without a single stitch of recovery gear or a friend to help him, I desided to help pull him out.

I pulled for a bit and things were going well until I heard a pop and stopped to check things out. I had successfully pulled the treads out of 5 of the 6 bolts from my frame!

So now I am buling a stronger mount. My question is, should I weld everything or bolt it? I hate the idea of not being able to take everything off easily but hate more to have a weak mount.

Any input is greatly appiciated and welcome.

Justin

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Winch mount weld or bolt? Which is stronger?

How long is a rope?

Seriously, the question can't be answered without a lot more detail. Good welds can be stronger than undersized bolts. Proper bolts can be stronger than bad welds.

 

[BKCowGod]

On my old Jeep, we bolted (with very high grade bolts) and then tac welded. It survived some pretty gnarly off-camber pulls that strained a 10k lb winch.

You also have to take into consideration the angle of pull and a bunch of other factors, but many winches out there have performed just fine with properly engineered bolt-only mounts.

 

[inked33]

if its done right welding will be the strongest. the steel will break before a quality weld will. but like you said its not easily removable. why not just go up in bolt size? and if theres room add a few extra bolts?

 

[trump]

http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfo...id=63&osCsid=e949f90d450f1ce5b35c11c3a5aa0d09

 

[ntsqd]

if its done right welding will be the strongest. the steel will break before a quality weld will. but like you said its not easily removable. why not just go up in bolt size? and if theres room add a few extra bolts?

If it is done right the weld will very likely have more area in shear than the bolts will. That doesn't mean that it is stronger. If the bolts are sized and torqued correctly this method will be stronger than welding. Flywheel bolts aren't in shear, they provide friction that is far stronger than the total of the bolt's shear strengths. Same thing would apply here.

But that just addresses attaching the mount to the chassis. Still need to have a strong mount design.

 

[Stumpalump]

I also have a 9K superwinch. I never bog mine down because it feels like it will pull my Jeep in half. I think it will pull to a lot more than 9K. I bet your bolts were grade 5. Thats 3 marks on the bolt heads. You need grade 8 or it's even better to go to a Caterpiller dealer and get their bolts. They are stronger than grade 8 and the sell and stock a lot of sizes. Bolts and welds are best but make sure you can get to the welds with a cutoff wheel or gringer when you need too. Did you get that rig out?

 

[I Leak Oil]

Sounds like the attachment point to the frame is what failed. You need to beef that up first. You can weld or bolt your mount all day long but if the frame that it's attached to isn't up to the task then it doesn't matter which method is better.

 

[trump]

:iagree:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=609994&postcount=5

eepwall:

 

[Antichrist]

The other thing to remember is to make sure your bolts and nuts are matched. Don't use grade 5 nuts with grade 8 bolts, or vice versa.

 

[tinker trek]

If only 4 small bolts hold the wench to the mounting plate - than that is your weak point..Welds / bolts it don't matter..6 or 4 grade eight bolts will out last those others anyway??

 

[762X39]

I had successfully pulled the treads out of 5 of the 6 bolts from my frame

Use better bolts. With a small 9000lb winch, grade 8 bolts (and nuts) will be enough. I have used grade 12 hardware in the past because I had them but really, for your application, less than $20 will fix your problem.

 

[threepiece188]

I think you have your answer in your own statement "I hate the idea of not being able to take everything off easily" Bolt on winch mounts have long been proven to work, I suggest you put the time into one.
Dan

 

[Antichrist]

I have used grade 12 hardware in the past

I doubt it, since there is no such thing as an SAE grade 12. I suspect you were using ISO class 12.9, or special alloy bolts like the ones made by Cat.

 

[Metcalf]

Post a picture of the winch mount attachment points and location.

In general, if its not designed properly the strongest bolts won't matter. You need to have a properly orientated bolt-up system with the material in the frame to support it. You can use super high strength bolts and nuts, but if the frame material at the attachment point cannot take the load your wasting time and money.