Yakima SkyRise RTT

[Box Rocket]

Slightly off-topic observation on the popularity of RTT's ...
I just got home from a 5 week, 10000 mile trip cross-country and back, in my Tacoma plus Tepui, with lots of wandering about through 25+ states. Not truly "overlanding, all in the US and at least half on Interstates (time and logistic reasons) but lots of back roads and about 150 miles of dirt with some remote dispersed camping, plus lots of BLM, National Forest and National Park campgrounds. Actually deployed in campgrounds I stayed in, I saw ONE hard-shell RTT and ONE Tepui. On the road, I noticed less than five RTT's mounted on vehicles. I saw two DeTomaso Panteras in Nebraska on I-80 but no RTT's in that long segment of highway.. None in two days in Moab, either. I saw a couple of Earthroamers and two FlipPacs in the West, a zillion Sprinters and many FWC's. Every time I camped, people came up and marveled at my Tepui. A few had heard of them ... seen them on the Internet but never in person. A salesman at the Toyota dealer near Salt Lake City, outdoor capital of the US, where I took my truck for service, was full of questions; again, he'd read about them but never seen one. That said, I live in Santa Cruz, and I see 5 Tepui's a day, many mounted on cars or small CUV's. So, this is either a growing market in its infancy or it's saturated and going nowhere, but it's good to see a new player. However, I don't see huge value in the tool-less mounting: spinning a wrench is easy compared to lifting and installing or removing a 100+ pound large object on the roof of a tall vehicle.

Which Toyota dealer did you go to near Salt Lake City? One of the dealers in the area is actually a new Tepui dealer.

 

[Box Rocket]

Is there a rtt that would fit three of us?

I'd take a look at the Tepui Autana XL, or Kukenam XL.

 

[dman93]

Which Toyota dealer did you go to near Salt Lake City? One of the dealers in the area is actually a new Tepui dealer.

I've already forgotten their name, but it was in Orem. It was a 15K "ToyotaCare" free service which means they basically look at stuff and rotate tires, as oil changes are now every 10K on the Gen3 Tacomas. But they got me in and out in 90 minutes with no appointment. I did go to a self-serve car wash before bringing it in to erase the evidence of a few donuts on the Bonnevile Salt Flats the day before

 

[avlfj40]

Doesn't having a quick release make them an easy target for thieves? Someone near me had a Tepui stolen off their truck. I just bought one, from box rocket, but have yet to install it and would like to use some sort of secure torx/tamper resistant fastener. It also has to be easily removed by me. My 40 doesn't need any help getting ****y mpg.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Box Rocket]

Doesn't having a quick release make them an easy target for thieves? Someone near me had a Tepui stolen off their truck. I just bought one, from box rocket, but have yet to install it and would like to use some sort of secure torx/tamper resistant fastener. It also has to be easily removed by me. My 40 doesn't need any help getting ****y mpg.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

There are a few DIY security ideas out there. There are also "theft resistant" nuts that can be used. Tepui is actively developing a security system to address theft as RTT's continue to grow in popularity. One of the other methods could be a decent temporary solution until Tepui gets something officially "to market".

 

[Cyclicalmotion]

Also, I should declare, I am a Yakima retailer here. Actually, I should say, I install all the damn things. Yakima has two nice things a car camper might want with this. Things that could apply to an overlander as well.

One pertains to the theft deferment systems.
Yakima uses compatibility in every item they make to hold a 4 tumbler SKS lock core.
Those cores have codes and you can order as many as you want direct from them. They are also sold in packs of 2,4,6,8,&12. This means that if you wish to run Bike mounts, kayak mounts, SUP mounts, cargo boxes, canoes, whatever.... you can have one key on your key chain to lock and unlock all of them on your roof or in your garage installed or not. I have many customers who have enough roof top mounts to cover a fleet of unimogs and pick and choose depending on the trip they are taking.

The other aside I wish to add her is that Yakima has been offering the use of an "AERO" steel bar.
No other brand offers that.
Considering that most other brands cover a very small part of the market i.e. Baja Racks. Or are a super massive player, i.e. Thule, this means only Yakima has the intent of anyone running a pretty massive static load on the roof of your average Subaru or Honda. I know not everyone is obsessed with MPG ratings. But when most people don't drive everywhere with their RTT many drive everywhere with their base rack. That aero edge is a huge thing for the average car camping customer.

 

[Cyclicalmotion]

Another aside to this discussion.
If one is using the average 4Runner for over landing use, the roof, while the car is driving is only recommended to take up to 165 lbs in load.
Now, I know that we go way beyond that. That most of the European Overlanding base vehicles are built in a more "purpose built" design for overlanding, etc.

The whole reason for this is the dynamic load of wind and other air resistance and the leverage like effect that the rack system applies to it.

I personally know Thule et al go through pretty outstanding testing of all of their systems. That go well beyond 165 pounds (some cars are limited further like no more that 100 or so) that is because of the forces experienced at 70-95mph on the interstate and you get passed by a long haul trucker doing 25 over whatever your doing creating the concussion that is imparted. And that happens what ten to twenty times an hour on some major thoroughfares on the way from, let's say Des Moines to Denver?

The argument I'm making here is why the Yakima tent is the way it is. They correctly sized up the Average American Overlander. (Whether they be a car camper or not)
Unlike Africa, or Utah, most Americans, have to drive to their place of expedition trekking. If I want to drive the BLM lands in Nevada, I have a 2,000 mile drive ahead of me before I do that.
If I just want to drive through Glacier National Park, I have 2,000 miles to go first.

I don't care how strong I think my vehicle is, if I were to put a Spare tire, 8-16 Gallons of water, a hi lift, extra gas or anything else like that on the roof of my truck, (or the top of a camper shell that's anchored with 4-6 extruded aluminum clamps to the composite steel and plastic bed of my truck) I'd have to be comfortable with the level of crazy I'd have to be.

Let's think about it.
50-80 lbs for the spare.
40 for the hi lift.
40-maybe 128 lbs of water.
Anywhere from 30-60 of more lbs of gas.

On the low end, that's 160lbs before any concept of a tent, or god forbid, an awning.

Many rigs I see are Trucks with shells, rack on top. That shell already is a proverbial sail. Tightened down with a few clamps.

If it isn't a truck it's a 4Runner or Xterra or the like with a roof rack. Either that roof rack is aftermarket, like Yakima. Or it's factory, with some cargo cage on it.

Now take 160lbs attach it to a 36-48 inch lever arm. Anchor that arm with two M5 screws and repeatedly hit it with 100mph blasts.

That's a crazy amount of dynamic force.

A kind of force that is not experienced by our compatriots in Australia or Africa because the OffRoading starts in their back yards. (Less so for Australia admittedly)

The shaking and jostling of weight while driving off road is a pronounced amount of force. No doubt.

My point is it's different than the types of forces imparted while highway driving.

Yakima was developing a tent for their racks, for their customers. Ones who drive long distances to experience their out of the way adventures. Using their knowledge of how vehicles handle regular highway forces

 

[PirateMcGee]

I like it but 12" closed is an overly thick brick.

 

[TacomaAustin]

Cyclical Motion - Welcome - The typical foldout roof-top tent is indeed an aerodynamic nightmare. So, why doesn't someone come up with an easy to remove hard shell top cover - that once removed can be used as an awning/shade on the side of the tent, which is opposite of the ladder?

Lighter weight tents using the same pagoda-style rain fly that Yakima plans to use have been around for a few years. The one that comes to mind is the Frontrunner Feather-Lite, which weighs in at about 90 lbs. It's very compact when closed - but it also 12" thick when closed with the ladder attached.

The other roof top tent similar to the design being used by the SkyRise is the Eezi-Awn Jazz. - It does weigh in at 110 lbs and is twice the price of a Frontrunner FeatherLite, but in its favor, the Eezi-Awn has a very robust platform and is made in South Africa rather in an Asian sweat shop that contracts out to multiple vendors.

I welcome Yakima's entry into the market, but keep in mind, there are other players with a well earned and proven track record.

 

[Cyclicalmotion]

I agree.
Let's come at it from another angle. Yakima decides to enter the fray.
Why?
Maybe it's because everyone is putting up RTT's on what is usually a Yakima base rack anyway.
Maybe it's because they see that they have a huge portion of the market share of dealer locations and this is a way to flood a market.
Maybe it's because they have a really good perspective on what should be on top of the roof of your car.
I dunno.
What I will say is this. I love the bigger heavier duty tents. They set up nice, they look great. They work well.
They are also god awful, pig heavy, lumps of center of gravity killing, Awkwardly placed, awkward to keep warm, inconvenient, monstrosities, that serve those who want the softer convieniences of life in the "outback". (That isn't a judgement call, depending on the length of trip, a RTT is a god sent sack of much needed comfort.)

Let's take a quick detour and discuss shoes or boots. In 1948(or so) to 1990(or so) Backpacking boots were Norwegian welt, Wood midsole, Vibram sole, full leather, 4-6 pound affairs.
In the same era, (here up to about 1975) running shoes went from leather shoes with flexible leather soles to foam and rubber soles and nylon construction.
Taking that into effect the Hikingand Backpacking industries reframed the construction methods for their boots. They became more comfortable, easier to use, and overall, better in many ways.
(Would I still love a pair of broken in Super Galibiers? Hell yes I would! They would also be waaaaaay overbuilt for all but about .02% of what I'd do.)

The Tepui, James Baroud, and other Heavy Duty tents out there are fantastic.

What are they so incredibly heavy though?
Is it because they were built by off-roaders? Knowing they were never going to take them off their trucks?
Or was because they thought that extremely thick heavy duty nylon was necessary to discourage the Grizzly that crawled up the hoop of your truck. (Which we all know is not the case)

They made a heavy duty tent because they wanted to mount it and forget it. Use it and keep it there. They had FJ40s and Defender 110s etc.

How long is someone gonna keep a 2014 Subaru Forrester?
How easy is it to park a Forrester with a rack and RTT in a urban garage off a back alley?
So that tent has to be removed.

Honestly, I think the genre needed a few cycling and Backpacking people to change things up and make some well thought out changes.

 

[WillBeck]

I like it but 12" closed is an overly thick brick.

That's pretty average for all RTT's.

 

[WillBeck]

I agree.
Let's come at it from another angle. Yakima decides to enter the fray.
Why?
Maybe it's because everyone is putting up RTT's on what is usually a Yakima base rack anyway.
Maybe it's because they see that they have a huge portion of the market share of dealer locations and this is a way to flood a market.
Maybe it's because they have a really good perspective on what should be on top of the roof of your car.
I dunno.
What I will say is this. I love the bigger heavier duty tents. They set up nice, they look great. They work well.
They are also god awful, pig heavy, lumps of center of gravity killing, Awkwardly placed, awkward to keep warm, inconvenient, monstrosities, that serve those who want the softer convieniences of life in the "outback". (That isn't a judgement call, depending on the length of trip, a RTT is a god sent sack of much needed comfort.)

Let's take a quick detour and discuss shoes or boots. In 1948(or so) to 1990(or so) Backpacking boots were Norwegian welt, Wood midsole, Vibram sole, full leather, 4-6 pound affairs.
In the same era, (here up to about 1975) running shoes went from leather shoes with flexible leather soles to foam and rubber soles and nylon construction.
Taking that into effect the Hikingand Backpacking industries reframed the construction methods for their boots. They became more comfortable, easier to use, and overall, better in many ways.
(Would I still love a pair of broken in Super Galibiers? Hell yes I would! They would also be waaaaaay overbuilt for all but about .02% of what I'd do.)

The Tepui, James Baroud, and other Heavy Duty tents out there are fantastic.

What are they so incredibly heavy though?
Is it because they were built by off-roaders? Knowing they were never going to take them off their trucks?
Or was because they thought that extremely thick heavy duty nylon was necessary to discourage the Grizzly that crawled up the hoop of your truck. (Which we all know is not the case)

They made a heavy duty tent because they wanted to mount it and forget it. Use it and keep it there. They had FJ40s and Defender 110s etc.

How long is someone gonna keep a 2014 Subaru Forrester?
How easy is it to park a Forrester with a rack and RTT in a urban garage off a back alley?
So that tent has to be removed.

Honestly, I think the genre needed a few cycling and Backpacking people to change things up and make some well thought out changes.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Have a feeling these will start popping up at campsites frequently.

 

[TacomaAustin]

The man has a point regarding smaller vehicles. This summer I saw a college aged couple who had a Tepui Ayer mounted to a Subaru Crosstrek.

Closed this particular tent adds about 12"of height above the roof rack and looked to cover 90% of the roof area of the small Subie. While it looked to be a tight fit in there for 2 people, they seemed to be a couple of happy campers and they did attract some attention in a good way at the FS campsite.

 

[Lemsteraak]

Cyclicamotion, good point about lack of innovation in roof tents of late. I'm not so sure if we can expect much from Yakima though.

I think the big innovation was the "universal mounting system" with quick mount rails together with a solid base to spread the load. Previous to that, roof top tents required expedition baskets so the dynamic weight was through the roof. This system was never approved by Yakima, back then they weren't fans of roof top tents. Their big competitor was the big backer so literally all roof top tents are designed for square bars. I've never seen any data on crash tests performed with Yakima equipment so we would rarely use Yakima equipment and then only at the customer's request.

Back to the point of innovation, there has been way too much "badge" engineering. Again, your point about innovation in other similar industries like kayaking or hiking tents is well taken. I think great strides can be made in materials. You can now have single walled tents perform well with some of the new fabrics for example. The expedition lot, if I can generalize, are a pretty conservative lot. Most of the innovative materials we used to draw from was from the marine industries and they weren't well received at the time. We supplied a roof tent to major off-road vehicle manufacturer for a show and it was refused because of the color, it was blue and they wanted tan. It was a tent used in expeditions around the world, it just didn't fit with their notion of what expeditions tents should look like and was only made in blue.

The last roof tent I was involved with about ten years back was made using aerospace materials. This tent which I use, weighs 75 pounds, about half that weight is mattress, is sleek, can take serious impacts without any damage, and doesn't draw any attention to itself because it doesn't look "expedition".

 

[Box Rocket]

Another aside to this discussion.
If one is using the average 4Runner for over landing use, the roof, while the car is driving is only recommended to take up to 165 lbs in load.
Now, I know that we go way beyond that. That most of the European Overlanding base vehicles are built in a more "purpose built" design for overlanding, etc.

The whole reason for this is the dynamic load of wind and other air resistance and the leverage like effect that the rack system applies to it.

I personally know Thule et al go through pretty outstanding testing of all of their systems. That go well beyond 165 pounds (some cars are limited further like no more that 100 or so) that is because of the forces experienced at 70-95mph on the interstate and you get passed by a long haul trucker doing 25 over whatever your doing creating the concussion that is imparted. And that happens what ten to twenty times an hour on some major thoroughfares on the way from, let's say Des Moines to Denver?

The argument I'm making here is why the Yakima tent is the way it is. They correctly sized up the Average American Overlander. (Whether they be a car camper or not)
Unlike Africa, or Utah, most Americans, have to drive to their place of expedition trekking. If I want to drive the BLM lands in Nevada, I have a 2,000 mile drive ahead of me before I do that.
If I just want to drive through Glacier National Park, I have 2,000 miles to go first.

I don't care how strong I think my vehicle is, if I were to put a Spare tire, 8-16 Gallons of water, a hi lift, extra gas or anything else like that on the roof of my truck, (or the top of a camper shell that's anchored with 4-6 extruded aluminum clamps to the composite steel and plastic bed of my truck) I'd have to be comfortable with the level of crazy I'd have to be.

Let's think about it.
50-80 lbs for the spare.
40 for the hi lift.
40-maybe 128 lbs of water.
Anywhere from 30-60 of more lbs of gas.

On the low end, that's 160lbs before any concept of a tent, or god forbid, an awning.

Many rigs I see are Trucks with shells, rack on top. That shell already is a proverbial sail. Tightened down with a few clamps.

If it isn't a truck it's a 4Runner or Xterra or the like with a roof rack. Either that roof rack is aftermarket, like Yakima. Or it's factory, with some cargo cage on it.

Now take 160lbs attach it to a 36-48 inch lever arm. Anchor that arm with two M5 screws and repeatedly hit it with 100mph blasts.

That's a crazy amount of dynamic force.

A kind of force that is not experienced by our compatriots in Australia or Africa because the OffRoading starts in their back yards. (Less so for Australia admittedly)

The shaking and jostling of weight while driving off road is a pronounced amount of force. No doubt.

My point is it's different than the types of forces imparted while highway driving.

Yakima was developing a tent for their racks, for their customers. Ones who drive long distances to experience their out of the way adventures. Using their knowledge of how vehicles handle regular highway forces

Cyclicamotion, good point about lack of innovation in roof tents of late. I'm not so sure if we can expect much from Yakima though.

I think the big innovation was the "universal mounting system" with quick mount rails together with a solid base to spread the load. Previous to that, roof top tents required expedition baskets so the dynamic weight was through the roof. This system was never approved by Yakima, back then they weren't fans of roof top tents. Their big competitor was the big backer so literally all roof top tents are designed for square bars. I've never seen any data on crash tests performed with Yakima equipment so we would rarely use Yakima equipment and then only at the customer's request.

Back to the point of innovation, there has been way too much "badge" engineering. Again, your point about innovation in other similar industries like kayaking or hiking tents is well taken. I think great strides can be made in materials. You can now have single walled tents perform well with some of the new fabrics for example. The expedition lot, if I can generalize, are a pretty conservative lot. Most of the innovative materials we used to draw from was from the marine industries and they weren't well received at the time. We supplied a roof tent to major off-road vehicle manufacturer for a show and it was refused because of the color, it was blue and they wanted tan. It was a tent used in expeditions around the world, it just didn't fit with their notion of what expeditions tents should look like and was only made in blue.

The last roof tent I was involved with about ten years back was made using aerospace materials. This tent which I use, weighs 75 pounds, about half that weight is mattress, is sleek, can take serious impacts without any damage, and doesn't draw any attention to itself because it doesn't look "expedition".

The heavy duty tents out there serve a purpose and fill a need, most of which is driven by offroaders. As the Rooftop Tents have exploded in popularity in the past few years they have also become much more "mainstream". The mainstream consumer more often than not does not prepare their vehicle in the same way many offroaders do for hard use where the heavy duty tents make more sense. More an more tents are being mounted on smaller cars and are only on the highways between national parks or established campgrounds and music festivals. So the needs within the market as it expands are changing and a lighter weight option is what it needed to fill that demand. This is why you saw the Tepui Baja Series tents which was followed by the announcement of the Yakima tents. Not everyone is using their tents on rough trails with days of offroad pounding and extreme weather.
Another good point was mentioned which is that the mainstream tent user more and more often lives in an urban apartment with limitations with parking space, and they use the same vehicle for daily driving duties and don't want a tent mounted full time. Having a lighter weight option that makes removal easier is clearly an attractive feature for this group of people.
.
As for lack of innovation....as a whole I agree with you. It seems like every week I see a new roof top tent company pop up and they are selling a very similar (if not identical) tent to a dozen other brands. Sadly many of these companies won't be around in a few years because their business model isn't sustainable (but that's another conversation) and it's also sad for the consumer that purchases these new brands with cheaper pricing because typically these companies do not have the ability to fulfill warranty claims with spare parts or full tent replacements in rare circumstances and when they are out of business in a few years, those same consumers are stuck with a product that has no backing.
I will hand it to Yakima for resisting the urge to just jump onto the "me-too" wagon and just reusing someone else's design like several brands we all know or a dozen others. I applaud them for trying to do their own thing and actually put some thought into it.
For those that think there is no innovation happening, you haven't been watching the market. In addition to Yakimas offering, Tepui has two brand new very innovative products hitting the market right now with the Baja series tents with interchangeable canopies, an industry first. The Tepui White Lightning Hardshell with it's "rack ready" design is also another industry first. And a couple years ago Tepui was the first to offer the heavy duty Ruggedized designs which are now being copied by other brands. So while as a whole the RTT industry is lacking in innovation, there are a couple of standout brands that our actually bringing new things to market consistently with all new designs as well as improvements to existing designs.