ZIL 131H 6x6

[antonmies]

Greetings from Finland!
I recently bought a ZIL 131H 6x6 from a Finnish army surplus auction.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with this, but it's with a carburetted 5,9l aluminum head V8 with 150hp/~240Nm of torque. Compression ratio is 6.5:1 and you can burn everything else but diesel fuels in it.

It has 5 gears front and 1 reverse. 1st, 2nd and 3rd are synchronized and 4th+Slow gear" are not. You can also choose between direct and reduced gear (which makes 1 gears front and 2 reverse in total).

Tire pressures can be adjusted by driver while driving. Brakes are pneumatic drums. Basic drive is 4wd, but front tires can be engaged when driving with direct gear and while in reduced gear, the drive is always 6wd. Front drive is engaged electro pneumatically.
There is a 5000kg winch in front and it's driven by a driveshaft.

The reason why I'm writing this here is because of the modifications made to this thing. It's currently in process of getting multi point fuel injection and a turbocharger and because I think this is the first time anyone has ever made that in the world!

I will post some "key pictures" and info about the progress and the rest of the pics can be found at http://www.hevosvoima.com/foorumi/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=71&p=792#p792

The texts back there are in Finnish but the pics are that make the story.

Here is some pics:

The ECU will be a Megasquirt 2 with a 3.57 board, coils: 8pcs of 034motorsport high performance coils
Injectors are 42lb Bosch green tops, turbocharger: some Master Power, but not quite decided yet(something that is capable of some 220-350hp) and the selection between internal/external wastegate lays in the hands of our forums users by a vote 8)

 

[Harald Hansen]

That's a really cool project!

 

[antonmies]

Thanks!

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Cool project. I have experience turbo charging a non-turbo engine, did it to my Focus.

My suggestion, for reliability and performance, is stick to an off-the-shelf turbo from an OEM manufacturer. And absolutely go for something with water cooling. That turbo will be working hard all the time moving that big truck. I used a Garrett GT2854R, capable of up to 270hp. You could also use the GT2860RS for up to 330hp.

Either one of these turbos will give you the power you want, spool up fast and are the latest technology. They're not cheap, but not too expensive either, relatively speaking. Even if you were going the junkyard route, you'd better rebuild it before putting it on or you're asking for trouble. A GT turbo is probably only about twice the price of a junkyard rebuilt.

How are you planning on managing the thermal load? This will be your biggest problem.

Intercooling? You should look at an Air-water intercooler. That's what I did. It's slightly more complicated, as now you need a water pump, but it's actually simpler because the air plumbing is so much easier. It's also more damage resistant, since the intercooler can't be damaged easily, it's underhood, instead of being up front.

 

[antonmies]

Cool project. I have experience turbo charging a non-turbo engine, did it to my Focus.

My suggestion, for reliability and performance, is stick to an off-the-shelf turbo from an OEM manufacturer. And absolutely go for something with water cooling. That turbo will be working hard all the time moving that big truck. I used a Garrett GT2854R, capable of up to 270hp. You could also use the GT2860RS for up to 330hp.

Either one of these turbos will give you the power you want, spool up fast and are the latest technology. They're not cheap, but not too expensive either, relatively speaking. Even if you were going the junkyard route, you'd better rebuild it before putting it on or you're asking for trouble. A GT turbo is probably only about twice the price of a junkyard rebuilt.

How are you planning on managing the thermal load? This will be your biggest problem.

Intercooling? You should look at an Air-water intercooler. That's what I did. It's slightly more complicated, as now you need a water pump, but it's actually simpler because the air plumbing is so much easier. It's also more damage resistant, since the intercooler can't be damaged easily, it's underhood, instead of being up front.

I do it for a living
I've planned putting a water/air IC in the engine bay next to the motor and an extra radiator for it (perhaps) behind the cabin with a couple of fans. I wouldn't see the mechanical vulnerability of the air/air in the front as a problem because it would be high from the ground and protected by the winch and large front bumper but rather because it might get muddy and lose efficiency.

As long as there is a good supply for oil, watercooled chra is not a necessity. Bare oil cooled is just as durable as watercooled if you remember to let the turbo to cool down properly after hard work. Watercooling gives you some simplicity as you wouldn't need to pay attention to it that much.

The OEM unit could be tricky as it's hard to know upfront what kind of flanges they have etc. Some are quite cost effective and some are not...

Ballbearings in an off-road vehicle? Don't think so. Journal bearing system is the only way for durability and it's a reason why those are not being used as OE in any application, not even in the expensive vehicles. There is a lot of talk regarding to this and some say BB is a way to go if you want a tough bearing system, I know as I spent some years feeding that mumbo to my customers but have learned a lot since those days...

The main reason I'm going with a Master Power is that I've been distributing them in Scandinavia for 5 years now. The quality and durability have been so great that I've completely stopped offering Garrett. I dunno if you are familiar with the brand or not, but here is their factory review if you are interested. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfIISzQJGT0[/ame]

Thermal load could be an issue and it will be seen if something needs to be done... Fabricate/modify a suitable aluminum radiator that is, but rather wouldn't go that way unless it will be absolutely necessary. I'm kinda hopeful as this is the military version that must be capable running everywhere in every condition that the cooling system would be "more than enough"...

 

[adrenaline503]

I should paint my frontier like that. Looks like a sweet truck.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

As long as there is a good supply for oil, watercooled chra is not a necessity.

I disagree, but I guess we have different applications. Mine was done on a high specific power output cramped engine bay, I'm melting enough things under the hood as it is. Relying purely on oil cooling means that heat is going more into the engine oil instead the water cooling system. Higher oil temps result. Would be different if you have an engine oil cooler, but I do not.

Watercooling gives you some simplicity as you wouldn't need to pay attention to it that much.

Exactly. What happens if you stall it and can't immediately restart? What happens when the hotter oil-cooled-only turbo gets hit with water?

The OEM unit could be tricky as it's hard to know upfront what kind of flanges they have etc. Some are quite cost effective and some are not...

The GT28R simply uses a T-25 flange. Easy.

Journal bearing system is the only way for durability and it's a reason why those are not being used as OE in any application, not even in the expensive vehicles.

Not true. Ball bearings are being used in many high performance applications. Focus RS, Nissan SR20DET off the top of my head.

I've never heard of Master Power before. Seems like they make copies of Garrett turbos in Brazil for OEM aftermarket replacement?

Don't want to argue about turbos with you. Sounds like you know what you want to do.

 

[antonmies]

I disagree, but I guess we have different applications. Mine was done on a high specific power output cramped engine bay, I'm melting enough things under the hood as it is. Relying purely on oil cooling means that heat is going more into the engine oil instead the water cooling system. Higher oil temps result. Would be different if you have an engine oil cooler, but I do not.

Exactly. What happens if you stall it and can't immediately restart? What happens when the hotter oil-cooled-only turbo gets hit with water?

The GT28R simply uses a T-25 flange. Easy.

Not true. Ball bearings are being used in many high performance applications. Focus RS, Nissan SR20DET off the top of my head.

I've never heard of Master Power before. Seems like they make copies of Garrett turbos in Brazil for OEM aftermarket replacement?

Don't want to argue about turbos with you. Sounds like you know what you want to do.

If the engine stalls when on load, the biggest problem is the lack of oil pressure, not the cooling method. If the turbo hits the water, it think some steam would appear and it would get a bit cooler for a while and continue doing it's business as usual.
I'm not saying watercooling is nonsense, just that it isn't a necessity in every application. OE:s use watercooling as it lengthens the life of CHRA in cars that are driven by common people that don't know nor care how you should use a turbocharged engine. And as a last points of view, this ZIL isn't really a daily driver doing 30000km/year for ten years and turbos don't cost me that much :victory:

Ball bearings are being used in many high performance applications, but so are journal bearing units as well. As OEM in commercial trucks and vessels you'll never see ball bearing units due to long term durability issues. But I guess this is a similar issue as some like the mother and some the daughter...

As for MP, you are right and you are not right :sombrero:
They have evolved by making replacement units for all common brands, not just Garrett. Their basic idea was to improve the original performance and they did it by combining different designs of different brands and fine tuning them.
Now they are in such point that they are an OEM supplier for MTU off highway and are making turbos for Bosch Mahle. Nowadays they also completely design and manufacture every key component by themselves, and I would say, that they have rather advanced technologies being worked out such as low inertial bearing system. http://masterpowerturbos.blogspot.com/

I don't just know what I _want_ to do but I know what I'm doing
Anyway, I like these conversations because they give me and the other guy a chance to learn from each other and perhaps get new ideas etc.

About the water thing mentioned earlier, the turbo location is quite high above the ground, so even if outside water would cause problems, I would be relatively safe.

I will post more tomorrow when I'll get the manifold pipework done. Here you can find some pre work http://www.hevosvoima.com/foorumi/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=71&p=1011#p1011

 

[sargeek]

What is the double sided amber light on the center of the cab for? A warning signal for slow moving vehicles?

Nice project. Keep up the good work!

 

[skysix]

Great video

Nice build site (even if I can't read Finnish)

LOVE the logging video!ZIL crossing a stream

 

[antonmies]

What is the double sided amber light on the center of the cab for? A warning signal for slow moving vehicles?

Nice project. Keep up the good work!

Yeah, it's an army convoy light.

 

[antonmies]

Nice build site (even if I can't read Finnish)

LOVE the logging video!ZIL crossing a stream

Thank you!

 

[Martinjmpr]

Love it! That wraparound window gives it a real 1950's look!

One question, though: I've never been to Finland or Russia, but I know in Western and Central Europe, Diesel are the most common power plants, especially for big trucks. I think there are a lot of reasons for this but one is fuel cost - diesel fuel is cheaper and diesel engines get better fuel economy than equivalent sized petrol engines.

I guess I'm surprised that the truck even has a gasoline (petrol) engine! When I was stationed in Germany in the 1980s, virtually every vehicle in NATO ran on diesel fuel except for some of the "non-tactical" vehicles (i.e. civilian - type vehicles.) The only tactical vehicle we had in the US Army that ran on gasoline was the M151 "Mutt" (Jeep) which was phased out of service by 1989.

So my question is: Wouldn't a diesel engine make more sense? Diesels are already fuel injected, just add the turbo and you've got a good, powerful engine that uses cheaper gas and probably lasts longer than an equivalent gasoline (petrol) engine, right?

 

[antonmies]

Love it! That wraparound window gives it a real 1950's look!

One question, though: I've never been to Finland or Russia, but I know in Western and Central Europe, Diesel are the most common power plants, especially for big trucks. I think there are a lot of reasons for this but one is fuel cost - diesel fuel is cheaper and diesel engines get better fuel economy than equivalent sized petrol engines.

I guess I'm surprised that the truck even has a gasoline (petrol) engine! When I was stationed in Germany in the 1980s, virtually every vehicle in NATO ran on diesel fuel except for some of the "non-tactical" vehicles (i.e. civilian - type vehicles.) The only tactical vehicle we had in the US Army that ran on gasoline was the M151 "Mutt" (Jeep) which was phased out of service by 1989.

So my question is: Wouldn't a diesel engine make more sense? Diesels are already fuel injected, just add the turbo and you've got a good, powerful engine that uses cheaper gas and probably lasts longer than an equivalent gasoline (petrol) engine, right?

That's a good question. I guess, I'm going on with this as I don't know anybody has ever made anything this stupid before with ZIL and I want to be the first (and probably last) to do this :sombrero:
The ZILs are pretty much the only vehicles running on gasoline and are only being used by armored troops and some artillery forces. ZILs ended up to Filnand due to events during the Cold War and Finlandization as our government bought a lot of soviet stuff for army. ZILs are phased out from western stuff taking it's place. But none of those "new hi tech" trucks cant beat ZILs in the woods :coffeedrink: Anyway, that for Finnish army as they are pretty pathetic

At first we thought of putting some diesel engine in, but we decided to see what the original power plant can and can't handle.
If we'll put a diesel motor in it, it'll be some Merc 400CDI engine or something like that.


Anyway, Managed to find some time to cut and tack weld the "headers".

This was looking great, util it was the time to pull it out for welding. The V-band joint was a bit too much inside the frame and the long part wouldn't of come out without taking the winches drives haft away and I didn't have much interest for that so decided to remake some of it and put the v-band to another place.

The pipe is now tack welded with mig and waiting for tig welding. I'll probably manage do do it on Sunday, maybe earlier.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

boost makes everything better! Great project man