Good expedition platform for a rookie?

[colter]

As far as purchasing something that was already built- thats the direction I took. I got a good 80 series, from an owner who wheeled it hard but was also very anal about maintenance and doing mods right the first time. I really like the 80 platform, with the exception of mpg numbers it makes a great DD and expedition rig. I bought mine for around $9K but have already spent close to $3K on maintenance, making sure everything is in the best shape possible. It will take me on a year long adventure next year, and even with other gear I still need I'll come in under $15K.

 

[SGV]

I tried showing my significant other a couple Land Cruisers. Those seem to be definitely out for the meantime due to the size of the beasts. I told her I think they are awesome, but since she does have a say in this I defer to this wish. It appears that the XJ and the 4Runner are top choices. Cherokees can be found for much less than a 4runner, and from what I understand, they are both extremely reliable 300k machines; and have local clubs.

 

[bigreen505]

I paid around $6k for a '99 Trooper with a rebuilt engine, OME springs and Rancho shocks. It is a pretty good vehicle but I definitely need to invest some time and money in maintenance.

 

[SGV]

More love for the Trooper, I like that. There are plenty available near me for a decent price. I can't believe how inexpensive those are. For the same year it seems that the Rodeos are more expensive. I find that weird.

This from another thread: http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250&

I wonder why no one has mentioned the Discovery I's. It sounds like it is comparatively easy to work on. Is it something a rookie shouldn't bother with because it is difficult to keep up with all the maintenance?

Graham,

I often make concessions on reliability if the vehicle is serviceable. That is also why I don't hesitate to recommend Defenders and series one Disco's to those capable of servicing them. Even though they are less reliable than a Land Cruiser, they are much easier to service...

If you look at a 110 based on the criteria I mention, it is easy to see why there are many of them running through the bush.

Capability: Long travel, great clearance, solid axle, good approach and departure

Capacity: High payload ratings


These criteria is what I used to buy my truck with. No luxury pinnings, no electronic intervention, etc. The Tacoma has excellent capability, high payload for the size, good economy, reasonably priced, class leading reliability and durability, etc. That is why there are so many of them used for expedition work. It is the closest we can get to a workhorse Land Cruiser anymore...

 

[SGV]

Wow, after reading this list of needed items for an expedition, I think I can easily rule out the little Suzukis and Jeep Wrangler from my want list.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200

I agree with the list Scott posted. Here's my list:

1. You have to start with a dependable and capable vehicle as you base to build up on.
2. You have to cover your rear! I think that vehicle protection has to be added to the list, by that I mean sliders, rock gaurds, and skidplates. Even the most experienced prerunner drive may miss that one large rock in the middle of the trail just over a hill and rip the oil pan off. I think this is one that is easily over looked and is a very important part of any vehicle that is going to leave the paved road.
   
   • Sliders
   • Bumpers (TMJ, ARB, Bull bars, custom...)
   • Rock Guards
   • Skid plates
   • Cross members
   • Frame re-enforcement
3. You must have vehicle recovery and repair equipment. Tools and spare parts are a must when going solo into remote locations. We have all had that on breakdown where we wish we came more prepaired. Along these line comes the Hi-Lift, and posibility of a winch to aid in situation where the vehicle is not broken, but stuck. Basic recovery items should be included, along with recovery points. (See tool and spare part lists below)
   
   Tools should include:
   

   • Pliers: needle nose, channel locks
   • Hammer (ball-peen, large and small)
   • Wrench set (Metric & standard)
   • Socket Set (Metric & standard)
   • Adjustable wrench
   • Spark Plug Socket
   • Volt Meter
   • Tire repair kit
   • Electrical & duct tape (or extreme tape)
   • Allen Wrenches
   • Hacksaw
   • WD-40
   • Jumper cables/battery booster
   • Vehicle service manual
   • Extra hose clamps
   • Bailing wire
   • Duct tape
   • Zip ties
   • Ratchet straps
   • Extra bolts & nuts
   • Various sized hardened washers
   • Electrical wire splice
   • RTV
   • JB Weld (quick)
   • Safety Glasses
   • fluid clean up kit (Oil absorbent pads)

   
   Spare Parts:
   

   • Tie Rod (Ends)
   • Engine belt(s)
   • Axle shafts
   • Axle & Driveshaft U-Joints
   • Spare Tire (full size)
   • Tire plug/repair kit
   • Spare Hub
   • Fuses
   • Radiator hose
   • Tire valve core
   • Hose clamps
   • Spare ignition & door key

   
   Recovery Gear:
   

   • Recovery points
   • Front mount winch & control (rear or multi-mount optional)
   • Snatch block pulley
   • D-Shackle(s)
   • Chain 10-20 feet, grade 70, 5/16 minimum
   • Recovery strap(s) (30K rating, NO stitched on hooks)
   • Shovel
   • Axe
   • Tree strap(s)
   • Gloves (welding gloves for winch cable handling)
   • Winch cable weight
4. Safety Equipment is also a must. In some case it equates to fabricating up your own storage solutions to acomadate the equipment.
   
   • First aid kit (first aid, CPR, additional medical training)
   • Fire extinguisher with gauge
   • Flashlight (consider 2 incase of bulb/battery failure)
   • Food and water
   • Flares (handle with extreme care)
   • Reflective triangles
   • Pet first aid items
5. Comunication and navigational equipment are a must. One can not depend on cell phone is remote locations, and GPS navigation is a nice luxury but not required, thanks to maps and compasses.
   
   • Cell Phone (car charger)
   • CB (car charger if portable)
   • Amateur radio .... include ARRL repeater directory
   • FRS (for group outings)
   • Global Positioning System
   • Area maps
   • Compass
6. Spare fluids are must. From water to gas. We need our fluids as much as our vehicles do.
   
   • Extra Fuel
   • Octane boost (get rid of the Mexican gas ills)
   • Water (drinking and potable)
   • Lighter fluid/ propane (reseaing a bead)
   • Oil
   • Air/CO2 systems
7. Life style mods, such as a shower system, tent and kitchen needs
   
   • Water heating system for showers
   • Tents (trailer, above vheicle, ect...)
   • Camper modifacions for Pick Up trucks
   • Refrigerators and cooling systems for perishables
   • Stoves, and sink modifications
8. Vehicle suspension or lift modifactions. All this stuff is going weigh down your expedition vehicle and lower the angles of approach and departure, ect. This also includes tire selection. This part is all going to based upon the specific needs of the vehicles owner.
9. Electrical System modifications. With many expedition vehicles there is an increase in load on the electrical system and the system will have to be modified to meet the user/owners needs or electrical draw.
   
   • Dual battery systems
   • Solar Pannels
   • High out put alternators
   • Power inverters
10. Owner specific mods/luxury Mods. Many owners will modify their rigs to their own needs, theese range from camera systems for self spotting to personal entertainment systems. Below are some examples that I can think of:
    
    • Camera self spotting systems
    • DVD players (keep the kids quiet)
    • Dog boxes
    • Weather systems
    • Computer systems
    • shelving systems for storage of goodies
    • Camera recording devices (under carriage, front view, driver, ect...)

Ok I got to get back to work now, but my list goes on and on. Next up I would continue on personal items such as sunscreen, bug repelent, ect. And remember what goes in must come out, and this means garbage bags and picking up after other peoples messes.


EDIT: After rereading the original post... I went a bit off tangent here! BUt it is a good list of what to include in preperation for an outing.

 

[4Rescue]

3Rd Gen 4Runner or any of the other toyotas.

2nd would be an older Montero or Trooper (a Newer gen Trooper actualy), although the have very little aftermarket support, they are VERY reliable vehicles that are massively under-apreciated in our market. Older troopers have the GM 2.8 V-6 which just might be one of the WORST motors ever produced in the world. The power band is between 3500 and 4100rpms and even then it doesn't have much juice. I LOVED our old trooper but hated the motor so much we got rid of it. the next owner dumped in a GM4.3 and WOW what a truck.

Stay away from the Uni-body Jeeps. I hate to say this, because I love the looks adn utility of the XJ (I've owned several) and they are really capable off-road, BUT... Nothing but headaches and very low build quality. I LOVE the 4.0l and all of it's I-6 goodness, but you CANNOT get even resonable milage out of them and adding goodies and bit's makes that go down. My dad's 98 (the last in a long line of Jeeps owned by he and I: now going to a Tundra) just puked his ECU and aparently the culprit was a bad crankshaft-sensor that shorted the ECU... Never heard of this, but there it was, dead as. 2K later and it's running but now he's lookin for a Tundra. My 93 (the last XJ I owned) ate 3 water-pumps and by the end of it's run, it squeeked and rattled so bad I hated driving it. The solid axle is nice, but my current IFS Toyota rides leagues better. They are also very cramped inside for how big they look outside and puting adults in the back seat is just torture imo. The Toyotas and the Jeeps are not in the same reliability catagory. While there are certainly good, well maintained examples out there and even some that don't experience the issues, they are ingeneral not 300K trucks. even if the motor made it that far, they body's would be shot and the interior would be falling or fallen apart.

The 3rd gen Runner is nice on the inside, the 3.4 is a great motor and the trucks are available as stated with a rear locker. I've really been contemplating puting the 1St Gen into trail-Toy status, SASing it, and getting a 3Rd gen for an Expo-truck/DD. My only 2 issuea are:

1) I don't belive you can get a 3.4 with a manual and the Locker. An R151 manual swap would be great, but I'd hate to hack up a new truck like that.

2) the frame is nothing near the boxed monster that's under my older gen truck. It truly is an amazingly beefy frame and something I marvel at considering the little truck it's under.

that's my .02

Cheers and No Worries

Dave

 

[SLost]

1) I don't belive you can get a 3.4 with a manual and the Locker. An R151 manual swap would be great, but I'd hate to hack up a new truck like that.

The locker was available with a manual and the 3.4 until 2001 when they discontinued the locker. I looked for one for a bit before I bought my Runner and never found one in good shape with low miles. I think that's the ideal setup. They're rare, but can be found.

 

[SGV]

4Rescue: Do you know if Montero Sports and Montero's are relatively interchangeable? I am pretty sure I have read that the Sport is on the regular Monty's frame. There are a ton of Sports for sale around here. As far as the 4.3 in the Trooper, I would think it would pretty much bolt right in. I have heard that the Isuzu's, because they co-produce so much with GM, that the GM motors go right in. Of course I am often mistaken about so many things.

 

[SGV]

My old XJ seemed to have things going wrong left and right which is mostly why I got rid of it. Now I must be feeling a bit of nostalgia or something. I remember it averaging about 15mpg and this is not a heavy vehicle. I think it weighs about the same as my wifes '03 Rav4 (which is the absolute easiest vehicle I have ever changed the oil on). I think a vehicle that light should get into to mid twenties avg. I loved that I6 though.

Stay away from the Uni-body Jeeps. I hate to say this, because I love the looks adn utility of the XJ (I've owned several) and they are really capable off-road, BUT... Nothing but headaches and very low build quality. I LOVE the 4.0l and all of it's I-6 goodness, but you CANNOT get even resonable milage out of them and adding goodies and bit's makes that go down. My dad's 98 (the last in a long line of Jeeps owned by he and I: now going to a Tundra) just puked his ECU and aparently the culprit was a bad crankshaft-sensor that shorted the ECU... Never heard of this, but there it was, dead as. 2K later and it's running but now he's lookin for a Tundra. My 93 (the last XJ I owned) ate 3 water-pumps and by the end of it's run, it squeeked and rattled so bad I hated driving it. The solid axle is nice, but my current IFS Toyota rides leagues better. They are also very cramped inside for how big they look outside and puting adults in the back seat is just torture imo. The Toyotas and the Jeeps are not in the same reliability catagory. While there are certainly good, well maintained examples out there and even some that don't experience the issues, they are ingeneral not 300K trucks. even if the motor made it that far, they body's would be shot and the interior would be falling or fallen apart.

 

[4Rescue]

4Rescue: Do you know if Montero Sports and Montero's are relatively interchangeable? I am pretty sure I have read that the Sport is on the regular Monty's frame. There are a ton of Sports for sale around here. As far as the 4.3 in the Trooper, I would think it would pretty much bolt right in. I have heard that the Isuzu's, because they co-produce so much with GM, that the GM motors go right in. Of course I am often mistaken about so many things.

You know, I don't. Sorry, I wish I knew more about these trucks. I was driving down teh freeway yesterday and I saw a Montero Sport that just LOOKED GREAT. I know nothing about the reliability of this particular model and I belive they are a completely different platform that's based off the Mitsu Colt, which is their small pick up in other markets (not the Colt wagon of N. america).

Can anyone here on the board school us on the Montero Sport??? Are they relaible? How's the power? What kind of options could they be had with??? Any ockers??? Etc.

I really like the looks of them and Mitsubishi makes great motors and relaible trucks in my experience.

The locker was available with a manual and the 3.4 until 2001 when they discontinued the locker. I looked for one for a bit before I bought my Runner and never found one in good shape with low miles. I think that's the ideal setup. They're rare, but can be found.

Gee thanks, now I'm looking for a new truck I can't afford ahahahaha that is seriously good new though eh, thanks for the education.

Cheers

Dave

 

[SGV]

Can anyone here on the board school us on the Montero Sport??? Are they relaible? How's the power? What kind of options could they be had with??? Any ockers??? Etc.

Here is a thread for a Mitsubishi Challenger, the Aussie version of the Sport I believe. http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16949

Uh....can you say freakin awesome?

 

[4Rescue]

My old XJ seemed to have things going wrong left and right which is mostly why I got rid of it. Now I must be feeling a bit of nostalgia or something. I remember it averaging about 15mpg and this is not a heavy vehicle. I think it weighs about the same as my wifes '03 Rav4 (which is the absolute easiest vehicle I have ever changed the oil on). I think a vehicle that light should get into to mid twenties avg. I loved that I6 though.

Yeah, I was in teh same boat, what really killed me is at freeway speeds (60-65) the motor is just loping along at like 1750-2k and it still doesn't ever get over 16mpg. I had 4.10's in the last one I owned and I just could not explain the bad fuel economy...

I will however say that they handle GREAT they're not very tall body wise and are quite wide and I really feel like a very modestly lifted one handles better than my Toyota. And again, the 4.0L is great coming out of a corner with all that low end torque... That is about all I miss about my XJ's, sometimes the SFA too.

Here is a thread for a Mitsubishi Challenger, the Aussie version of the Sport I believe. http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16949

Uh....can you say freakin awesome?

OH YEAH, MrBishi here on the board!!! How could I forget his truck. It's so cool!!!!!!!!!!!

So please Chime in MrBishi, we really need your input.

Cheers

Dave

 

[SGV]

I found some information on the Monty Sport:

http://www.monterosportonline.com/

In 1997, Mitsubishi answered the demand for a mid-size SUV with the Montero Sport, smaller in comparison to the regular Montero. Although built on the same chassis, the new 'Sport incorporated a lower, lighter, and shorter body. Three models were introduced: the ES with 2-wheel drive, the LS with 4-wheel drive, and the XLS with 2- or 4-wheel drive. All models had a 3.0 liter V6 engine, except the ES with a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder engine. Standard 5-speed manual transmission came in the ES and 4wd LS, while others had a 4-speed automatic. Click Here to see how the design of the Montero Sport came about.

Hmm...same chassis as the Montero. I wonder if it too can come with a factory locker. I don't think the aftermarket support for Mitsubishi's is all that great but this simplifies it a bit. These things are all over New England too.

 

[jh504]

3Rd Gen 4Runner or any of the other toyotas.

2nd would be an older Montero or Trooper (a Newer gen Trooper actualy), although the have very little aftermarket support, they are VERY reliable vehicles that are massively under-apreciated in our market. Older troopers have the GM 2.8 V-6 which just might be one of the WORST motors ever produced in the world. The power band is between 3500 and 4100rpms and even then it doesn't have much juice. I LOVED our old trooper but hated the motor so much we got rid of it. the next owner dumped in a GM4.3 and WOW what a truck.

Stay away from the Uni-body Jeeps. I hate to say this, because I love the looks adn utility of the XJ (I've owned several) and they are really capable off-road, BUT... Nothing but headaches and very low build quality. I LOVE the 4.0l and all of it's I-6 goodness, but you CANNOT get even resonable milage out of them and adding goodies and bit's makes that go down. My dad's 98 (the last in a long line of Jeeps owned by he and I: now going to a Tundra) just puked his ECU and aparently the culprit was a bad crankshaft-sensor that shorted the ECU... Never heard of this, but there it was, dead as. 2K later and it's running but now he's lookin for a Tundra. My 93 (the last XJ I owned) ate 3 water-pumps and by the end of it's run, it squeeked and rattled so bad I hated driving it. The solid axle is nice, but my current IFS Toyota rides leagues better. They are also very cramped inside for how big they look outside and puting adults in the back seat is just torture imo. The Toyotas and the Jeeps are not in the same reliability catagory. While there are certainly good, well maintained examples out there and even some that don't experience the issues, they are ingeneral not 300K trucks. even if the motor made it that far, they body's would be shot and the interior would be falling or fallen apart.

The 3rd gen Runner is nice on the inside, the 3.4 is a great motor and the trucks are available as stated with a rear locker. I've really been contemplating puting the 1St Gen into trail-Toy status, SASing it, and getting a 3Rd gen for an Expo-truck/DD. My only 2 issuea are:

1) I don't belive you can get a 3.4 with a manual and the Locker. An R151 manual swap would be great, but I'd hate to hack up a new truck like that.

2) the frame is nothing near the boxed monster that's under my older gen truck. It truly is an amazingly beefy frame and something I marvel at considering the little truck it's under.

that's my .02

Cheers and No Worries

Dave

I totally disagree. Just because you have a few bad experiences doesnt make a platform bad. There is NOTHING wrong with the unibody on XJs. There are many local XJ trail rigs around here that are beat to death and unibody has not been a problem on any of them. You can argue theorys all day but I will hold to evidence. The unibody argument isnt a good one. If you are building a hardcore rock crawling rig then yes steer away from it, but for an expedition rig it works great. The crankshaft sensors do go bad, that is something you have to keep up with. However the 4.0 is an excellent motor for high mileage and also trail abuse. The 4.0 AW4 combo is one of the best combos Jeep has offered. There are countless XJs out there running extremly high miles and never had issues. It is a known fact that I6 automatic cherokees are very reliable vehicles. I will agree with you all day along if you want to bring up other Jeep products, Like YJs, ZJs, and whatever else. They don't have a very good track record, but I think they did pretty well with the XJ, and will give them credit for that.
Also, Im sure that an IFS Toyota rides better on the road, but I do know that if you take an XJ and an IFS Toyota with the same amount of ground clearance offroad on the rocks, there isnt a comparison in the XJs capability. It will flex like no tomorrow.
Also the myth that XJs get bad gas mileage. XJs, statistically, have some of the best mileage numbers out of all of the 4x4 SUVs. IF YOU DRIVE IT RIGHT you can get 17-20 city and 22-24 HWY. If you have a heavy foot, which I would say that 90% of Americans do, then you wont see these numbers.

Sorry, I am not trying to be arguementative, and I dont want to turn this into a Jeep vs Toyota thread. Honestly I am a Toyota guy, always have been. If money was not an option and I had to choose XJ or Toyota, It would be the Toyota everyday. They are more reliable and are tougher on the trail than an XJ. I do have a problem with the statements that XJs arnt reliable and are not up to par offroad, because that is not the case. If someone is looking for a budget build that is reliable and very capable, an XJ is a good way to go.
....This is coming from a Toyota guy.

 

[SGV]

Thank you jh504, this is exactly the kind of advice I am looking for. Being someone with very little experience with this subject, I am looking for opinions that can refute some of my own misconceptions. I really am looking for something that someone with a little mechanical ability can learn on. I like the power of the Jeep I-6, but looking at all the wires and tubes is a little intimidating and I have to admit hearing about the problems has me nervous about jumping back into one and taking out to the woods for a week. I have looked underneath the Liberty hood and it looks more friendly, but I know nothing about these. My hope for this thread was to help me research, but also for any other nubies out there who want to at least try going on expeditions, but are afraid of just getting any ole 4x4 and hitting the dirt. I love the information I have seen so far. I have read a lot of good and bad about several vehicles, but it is hard to sort through it all.