Good expedition platform for a rookie?

[jh504]

Thank you jh504, this is exactly the kind of advice I am looking for. Being someone with very little experience with this subject, I am looking for opinions that can refute some of my own misconceptions. I really am looking for something that someone with a little mechanical ability can learn on. I like the power of the Jeep I-6, but looking at all the wires and tubes is a little intimidating. I have looked underneath the Liberty hood and it looks more friendly, but I know nothing about these. My hope for this thread was to help me research, but also for any other nubies out there who want to at least try going on expeditions, but are afraid of just getting any ole 4x4 and hitting the dirt. I love the information I have seen so far.

Sorry to you and 4rescue if my last post came across as being an attack, that is not what was intended. Honestly if you have the money for what it would take to build one a 3rd gen 4runner is an excellent choice. I have had two Tacomas with the 3.4 I used extensivly off road and I loved them both.
I think that a lot of people, including myself, have had bad experiences with Jeep products, which has put a bad taste in their mouth. I have seen a lot of XJs, however, take the abuse that is given to them and still take you back home at the end of the day. The difference is, you have to know their weakness, and with a Toyota you really dont. The crank position sensor is notorious and, as 4rescue pointed out, some of the Jeeps have a problematic water pump. The AW4 transmission, while being an awsome trans, is prone to overheating, so an aftermarket trans cooler is suggested. Just knowing the limits of the vehicle will take you a lot farther.

 

[firemansxterra]

SGV

You listed the Xterra in your first post but you listed the 1st Gen...not sure why? The 2nd Gen is a far better truck. I could go on all day, but basics are better engine, platform, more room, etc., etc. You should check out http://thenewx.org a site designed for 2nd Gen. Xterras. An OR model is one of the best right out of the box vehicles out and Nissan has some great sales going on right now...also check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8x66mrcZeY

That coming from Motor Trend which is one of the most reputable names out

 

[SGV]

Sorry to you and 4rescue if my last post came across as being an attack, that is not what was intended. Honestly if you have the money for what it would take to build one a 3rd gen 4runner is an excellent choice. I have had two Tacomas with the 3.4 I used extensivly off road and I loved them both.
I think that a lot of people, including myself, have had bad experiences with Jeep products, which has put a bad taste in their mouth. I have seen a lot of XJs, however, take the abuse that is given to them and still take you back home at the end of the day. The difference is, you have to know their weakness, and with a Toyota you really dont. The crank position sensor is notorious and, as 4rescue pointed out, some of the Jeeps have a problematic water pump. The AW4 transmission, while being an awsome trans, is prone to overheating, so an aftermarket trans cooler is suggested. Just knowing the limits of the vehicle will take you a lot farther.

No prob. I had just recently let my subscription to JP magazine run out. I really did like my Cherokee, but with my research I have been more put off. When I sold my XJ, my work commute was 20 miles each way at 75 mph. My mindset at the time was a good comfortable commuter that had 4wd for the snow. I had to have the ability to get to my office. Looking back I wish I had just bought a new suspension for it, but I was making good money and thought what the hell, I'll get a new car. My mindset now is I want a vehicle that I can service myself for the most part, take on expeditions, and is reliable. I didn't take your post as an attack, actually, I was glad for it because I go back and forth when thinking about Cherokees. I admit that the unibody makes me nervous. I don't want to have the body flex to far and suddenly I have a useless rig, but from reading JP, Jeep forums, and here, I don't think it should be as much of a problem. Still, in the gut it makes me nervous, and I do remember the problems I had with it.

 

[SGV]

SGV

You listed the Xterra in your first post but you listed the 1st Gen...not sure why? The 2nd Gen is a far better truck. I could go on all day, but basics are better engine, platform, more room, etc., etc. You should check out http://thenewx.org a site designed for 2nd Gen. Xterras. An OR model is one of the best right out of the box vehicles out and Nissan has some great sales going on right now...also check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8x66mrcZeY

That coming from Motor Trend which is one of the most reputable names out

What I was referring to is that in my limited research on the Xterra, I have read that the 1st gen had an overbuilt drivetrain matched to a slightly low powered engine; and the 2nd gen had a superb engine matched to a down-graded drivetrain. I have read that many 2nd gen Xterra drivers are blowing their front differential or they are replacing the front with one from the Titan. Before I bought my GV, I test drove an 06 Xterra and frikken loved it. I was in the commuter mindset at the time so mpg was high on my priority list. If my commute wasn't so long on the interstate, I would most likely be driving an 06 Xterra right now and instead of looking for a good candidate, I would be trying to build it up. Unfortunately, I effed-up and am in a situation where money is tight and I have to build on a budget. I don't mind an underpowered vehicle if it has adequate power and a drivetrain that is ultra-reliable.

 

[MoGas]

Get an 80 a TJ Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited and be done with it.

 

[SGV]

That would be nice, I really think those are sweet, but. Would a newbie be able to deal with any problems on the trail. I am thinking in terms of both reliability and ability for someone to handle repairs. Then again, what is the real difference between an XJ and an LJ other than convertible on frame vs inexpensive unibody with less weight

 

[MoGas]

That would be nice, I really think those are sweet, but. Would a newbie be able to deal with any problems on the trail. I am thinking in terms of both reliability and ability for someone to handle repairs. Then again, what is the real difference between an XJ and an LJ other than convertible on frame vs inexpensive unibody with less weight

Withe either a 4.0 TJ or an 80 series, you won't have problems as long as you go through and baseline it.

 

[SGV]

Withe either a 4.0 TJ or an 80 series, you won't have problems as long as you go through and baseline it.

Great bit of info. I assumed I would do things like change fluids, plugs, wires, and so on. I think you are talking about going through the machine entirely and fixing or replacing everything when you say baseline.

 

[4Rescue]

Sorry to you and 4rescue if my last post came across as being an attack, that is not what was intended. Honestly if you have the money for what it would take to build one a 3rd gen 4runner is an excellent choice. I have had two Tacomas with the 3.4 I used extensivly off road and I loved them both.
I think that a lot of people, including myself, have had bad experiences with Jeep products, which has put a bad taste in their mouth. I have seen a lot of XJs, however, take the abuse that is given to them and still take you back home at the end of the day. The difference is, you have to know their weakness, and with a Toyota you really dont. The crank position sensor is notorious and, as 4rescue pointed out, some of the Jeeps have a problematic water pump. The AW4 transmission, while being an awsome trans, is prone to overheating, so an aftermarket trans cooler is suggested. Just knowing the limits of the vehicle will take you a lot farther.

Hey man, NO WORRIES.. I get heated and come across as attacking sometimes so don't worry mate, I understand and was not offended at all.

That would be nice, I really think those are sweet, but. Would a newbie be able to deal with any problems on the trail. I am thinking in terms of both reliability and ability for someone to handle repairs. Then again, what is the real difference between an XJ and an LJ other than convertible on frame vs inexpensive unibody with less weight

The lack of a frame alone is a huge difference. IMO Uni-body has no place in an expedition platform or trail rig.

If you want solid axles and room to haul things, the 80 Series Cruiser is really your only N. American option and a good one at that. While the LJ is one of my personal favorite Jeeps (I see it as a modern Scrambler wich I LOVE) and is probably, because of the wheel-base and Rubicon packages, one of the most cpapble Jeeps ever made. They're hardly suited to lots of cargo and multiple passengers.

My 1st Gen 4Runner is kind of similar. For me and the GF or a buddy, it's perfect. Add a third person and the subsequent gear and it get's cramped quick. 4 Doors make a big difference in this department.

Personaly I think the 4 door JK is one of the fugliest things ever made and I couldn't bring my self to drive one, but if you want a Jeep for the long haul that might be it. Swap out the crummy motor they saddled it with and you would have a tolerable rig. That said, an 80 would still be better and almost just as capable on the tight trails.

Cheers

Dave

 

[SGV]

I am curious. This is a little off the subject, but I didn't think it worth starting a new thread. I can if anyone feels this is a good question to post.

Does mpg really matter all that much on the trail? Of course I want good fuel economy, but what is the difference between an LC that averages 14 mpg and a Montero that averages closer to 20 in regular driving? Bigger tires, lots of weight, crawling slowly over rough terrain up and down steep grades; all these things will cause a vehicle to produce terrible mpg. In that environment, do the differences between a highly efficient vehicle and a not so much one get erased?

 

[cruiser guy]

Does mpg really matter all that much on the trail? Of course I want good fuel economy, but what is the difference between an LC that averages 14 mpg and a Montero that averages closer to 20 in regular driving? Bigger tires, lots of weight, crawling slowly over rough terrain up and down steep grades; all these things will cause a vehicle to produce terrible mpg. In that environment, do the differences between a highly efficient vehicle and a not so much one get erased?

The difference here is between a diesel powered rig and a gasser. A gasser MUST operate at a fixed air/fuel ratio (14.7:1 or something like that). You change the ratio and the engine will not run well. A diesel on the other hand can operate on a variable air/fuel ratio. Idle a diesel and maybe the ratio is 100:1, working hard maybe 5:1. On the trail there is alot of idling and a little hard work.

I can spend a weekend on the trail and use 5 gallons of diesel!

 

[4Rescue]

The difference here is between a diesel powered rig and a gasser. A gasser MUST operate at a fixed air/fuel ratio (14.7:1 or something like that). You change the ratio and the engine will not run well. A diesel on the other hand can operate on a variable air/fuel ratio. Idle a diesel and maybe the ratio is 100:1, working hard maybe 5:1. On the trail there is alot of idling and a little hard work.

I can spend a weekend on the trail and use 5 gallons of diesel!

yeah thanks for rubbing it in... you have a Diesel Cruiser... blah blah blah

HAHAHHAHAHA J/K I'm so jealous of your Diesel it HURTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Dave

 

[jh504]

Hey man, NO WORRIES.. I get heated and come across as attacking sometimes so don't worry mate, I understand and was not offended at all.


The lack of a frame alone is a huge difference. IMO Uni-body has no place in an expedition platform or trail rig.

If you want solid axles and room to haul things, the 80 Series Cruiser is really your only N. American option and a good one at that. While the LJ is one of my personal favorite Jeeps (I see it as a modern Scrambler wich I LOVE) and is probably, because of the wheel-base and Rubicon packages, one of the most cpapble Jeeps ever made. They're hardly suited to lots of cargo and multiple passengers.

My 1st Gen 4Runner is kind of similar. For me and the GF or a buddy, it's perfect. Add a third person and the subsequent gear and it get's cramped quick. 4 Doors make a big difference in this department.

Personaly I think the 4 door JK is one of the fugliest things ever made and I couldn't bring my self to drive one, but if you want a Jeep for the long haul that might be it. Swap out the crummy motor they saddled it with and you would have a tolerable rig. That said, an 80 would still be better and almost just as capable on the tight trails.

Cheers

Dave

I still disagree with the unibody issue. Never in my life have I seen one with a failure, and I love that my rig weighs so little. But we will have to agree to disagree.

One thing we can agree on is that an 80 series is probably going to be the best thing to role with. An 80 will probably be my next build. Of course that will be after my unibody spontaneously combusts!

 

[Martinjmpr]

Does mpg really matter all that much on the trail? Of course I want good fuel economy, but what is the difference between an LC that averages 14 mpg and a Montero that averages closer to 20 in regular driving? Bigger tires, lots of weight, crawling slowly over rough terrain up and down steep grades; all these things will cause a vehicle to produce terrible mpg. In that environment, do the differences between a highly efficient vehicle and a not so much one get erased?

It depends on a lot of other factors. If you live close to the areas you are exploring, then MPG might not matter. But if you live in, say, Rhode Island, and you want to go exploring in Utah or Colorado, then the difference between 14 and 20 MPG can be significant. Let's say you do a 5,000 mile round trip (I'm just talking about highway time - not 'wheeling time):

5000 miles / 14 mpg = 357 gallons used
5000 miles / 20 mpg = 250 gallons used

During summer when gas prices peak, you can expect to pay up to $4.50/gallon. So 4.50/gallon x 107 gallons extra (the fuel you will use on the 14 mpg vehicle that you will not use on the 20 mpg vehicle) = almost $500 more. That's $500 that you can't spend on other stuff.

It also affects how you 'wheel. I don't know how big the tank was on the FJ80 but on my 90 Montero it was 24 gallons. 24 gallons x 17 mpg (my low average when driving on dirt or undeveloped roads) = 408 miles range. Assuming an FJ80 has a similar sized tank at 12 mpg = 288 miles range.

So bottom line is that in my opinion, yes, it matters.

 

[cruiser guy]

I'm so jealous of your Diesel it HURTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Dave

When I'm through Oregon next year you can come and admire it if you like! I was on McGrew with the TLCA in July.