Heating Options

[ReluctantTraveler]

For my build, I'd been planning to use propane for the heat and hot water, but I've decided to weigh some other options.

My flatbed camper will be periodically removed from the bed, so integrating the heating system with the onboard gas supply isn't an option. Propane seemed like a natural fit because it's relatively clean burning, requires less maintenance, and is readily available in the US where I'll be doing most of my travel for the foreseeable future....

HOWEVER... as I've been sketching out my layout, it's become obvious that the only place that could accommodate storage for two propane tanks is underneath my kids' sleeping area, and that makes me pretty nervous given how explosive propane can be.

I'm not looking into gas/petrol and diesel heaters. I know it's possible to use standalone tanks for them. I'm also planning to max out my roof with solar panels and include at least 810ah of LiFePo4 batteries, so I'm entertaining electric as well.

New EarthCruiser's use diesel heaters with a standalone tank (the platform is all petrol motors now), and a Bosch electric water heater. I'd expect an electric heater to be wildly slow and inefficient, but I'm not opposed to using electric for both water and heat if I can make it work.

My concern with gas/diesel heaters is performance at higher altitudes (I live in the mountainous Northeast), as well as ongoing maintenance. I know they can get clogged up from exhaust which can create issues. This is part of why I'd turned away from them initially. I've also heard they can be loud and smelly.

I'm open to any and all opinions here.

 

[DiploStrat]

Use a stand alone tank and run kerosene at altitude. Dual Tops have their challenges, but they are dead silent in normal use.

Consider a diesel or gasoline air heater and a heat exchanger to heat your water.

Don't waste time on propane.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Use a stand alone tank and run kerosene at altitude. Dual Tops have their challenges, but they are dead silent in normal use.

Consider a diesel or gasoline air heater and a heat exchanger to heat your water.

Don't waste time on propane.

so I was just reading into this a little bit. It sounds like kerosene also can help clean out the heater if burned occasionally?

why do you say not to bother with propane? And would you use diesel for both the heat and hot water?

if you’ll forgive me one last question: do you have a sense for how much diesel a diesel heater burns through in a week?

I have a pretty good sense of that already with the propane in our travel trailer, but I have no experience with diesel heaters.

 

[DiploStrat]

Kerosene has slightly lower BTU, but produces less soot on the burner. Also mandatory that you do a 30 minute full power burn every month.

I use a Webasto Dual Top, great when it works, but can be a bit finicky. Doing today, I would use a separate air heater and a heat exchanger hot water system.

I draw diesel from the main tank, but the consumption is so low I simply never worry about it. I believe that the common number is a liter per day. As I said, the consumption is so low, even at 0F, that I have never noticed it. And, as I cannot really drain my water system, I run the heat all winter.

We keep our camper at just below 70F and take a hot shower every day - diesel heat is great.

Cons specific to the Dual Top:

-- Can soot up, may need a new burner every 2-3 years.
-- Thermostat can permit wider temperature swings than you like.

As always, YMMV, but we routinely camp in the cold and never worry about running out of propane, loud heater noise, etc.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Kerosene has slightly lower BTU, but produces less soot on the burner. Also mandatory that you do a 30 minute full power burn every month.

I use a Webasto Dual Top, great when it works, but can be a bit finicky. Doing today, I would use a separate air heater and a heat exchanger hot water system.

I draw diesel from the main tank, but the consumption is so low I simply never worry about it. I believe that the common number is a liter per day. As I said, the consumption is so low, even at 0F, that I have never noticed it. And, as I cannot really drain my water system, I run the heat all winter.

We keep our camper at just below 70F and take a hot shower every day - diesel heat is great.

Cons specific to the Dual Top:

-- Can soot up, may need a new burner every 2-3 years.
-- Thermostat can permit wider temperature swings than you like.

As always, YMMV, but we routinely camp in the cold and never worry about running out of propane, loud heater noise, etc.

this is awesome, thanks! it also looks like this kind of unit would take up considerably less space in the rig, which is another huge win.

 

[Ozarker]

We had a diesel heater years ago, it smelled, the fuel stinks, if you spill any you will lave a stinking mess, depends on the heater, size and temp setting as to the fuel burn, 3/4 a gallon in 8/10 hour burn. I'd never have diesel again.

Electric and propane for me, but you need fresh air and a draft allowing fresh air circulation, propane causes condensation. That's for heat and hot water. I'm thinking of using a small bathroom vented propane unit, just like you'd have at home.

I haven't camped at altitude for years, I'm considering a small wood burner, small fireplace glass door type. In real cold weather those small wood burners will need some backup according to some users, nice to break the chill, heat water, even cook on, but not the best primary heat.

Also considering electric fluid radiator type heaters, the small room heaters, I used those at my cabin a few times and it was nice. Not sure what the drain would be like but it would be much less than an electric heating element type with a fan. The element heats the oil and temp control regulates oil temp with less energy than just heating air.

Don't bother with radiant electric heaters, they heat things, not the air.

Don't forget electric blankets.

Kerosene is good, but it is as messy as diesel, but the stink isn't as bad. I've used a floor K/stove, round glass thing at the cabin, it does heat very well but the burn rate in those stoves took a couple tanks a day, like 3 gallons.

Propane should be stored out of the living area, down below in a compartment or outside.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Just a note to myself: I’d love to find a diesel heater that can also run off electric when available.

 

[Ozarker]

Just a note to myself: I’d love to find a diesel heater that can also run off electric when available.

That's two different worlds, electrical resistance and a burning flame. Just use both if you want to go that route.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

That's two different worlds, electrical resistance and a burning flame. Just use both if you want to go that route.

it’s not like they don’t exist though. For example, Truma makes a unit that’s a furnace and hot water heater, and the hot water can run off gas or electric.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Electric and propane for me, but you need fresh air and a draft allowing fresh air circulation, propane causes condensation.

My understanding is that while this is true, non-portable propane furnaces are vented to the outside and thus no condensation is released into the camper itself.

Also considering electric fluid radiator type heaters, the small room heaters, I used those at my cabin a few times and it was nice. Not sure what the drain would be like but it would be much less than an electric heating element type with a fan. The element heats the oil and temp control regulates oil temp with less energy than just heating air.

I've looked into a few of these (like the AquaHot). They're really cool, but require a full winterization when not in use because the lines can't be properly drained.

Don't bother with radiant electric heaters, they heat things, not the air.

Incidentally, we take a small electric space heater with us when we'll be staying at campgrounds, and prefer it to the propane furnace. It's quieter and sufficiently heats the entire camper, though it takes a bit longer to bring the whole thing up-to-temp.

The biggest downside, of course, is the massive electrical draw, which I think would be prohibitive in the winter even with a big battery array.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Propane should be stored out of the living area, down below in a compartment or outside.

Also meant to say, when I wrote "the only place that could accommodate storage for two propane tanks is underneath my kids' sleeping area," I did NOT mean inside the living area. It would be externally vented storage sealed off from the living area, but still directly under where the sleep.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

We had a diesel heater years ago, it smelled, the fuel stinks, if you spill any you will lave a stinking mess

Kerosene is good, but it is as messy as diesel, but the stink isn't as bad.

This is what has stopped me, TBH. I hear differing things on this.

 

[dstefan]

Granted, I am in a much smaller pop-up camper, but FWIW I tried one of the Wave catalytic heaters. They suck. Condensation and combustion byproducts are not the way to go in a camper.

I didn’t really have a place to put a Propex propane heater, but I eventually ended up, putting in a Truma Vario heater that fit nicely on the wall of my camper. It’s been fantastic. I haven’t had a huge amount of experience with it yet, but so far it’s worked great and it’s very efficient on the propane.

One thing I really like about the Truma versus the Propex heaters is it has combined the exhaust and intake hoses so you just have one hose going to a rather trick external port — way less difficult to plumb in. It’s very quiet and very effective.

As far as safety goes, if you have your bottles in a proper locker with external venting in the bottom, a monitor, and turn off the valve when you’re traveling, propane can be safe. You just can’t be stupid. Yes, it’s explosive, but any combustible material is a risk whether it’s propane or diesel or gasoline. I know some will argue that diesel won’t blow up, but the smell, mess, and a third fuel source is a big issue for me and burning is burning. Propane explosions come from the little green canisters that people are refilling, illegally, or, historically, from three-way, propane refrigerators that had to stay on with the pilot light while you were driving. Driving on the interstate is probably more dangerous than having PROPERLY stored and vented propane in your rig, though some may disagree!

Of course, if you already have a diesel engine rig, then DiploStrat is completely right, it’s the only way to go.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Granted, I am in a much smaller pop-up camper, but FWIW I tried one of the Wave catalytic heaters. They suck. Condensation and combustion byproducts are not the way to go in a camper.

I didn’t really have a place to put a Propex propane heater, but I eventually ended up, putting in a Truma Vario heater that fit nicely on the wall of my camper. It’s been fantastic. I haven’t had a huge amount of experience with it yet, but so far it’s worked great and it’s very efficient on the propane.

One thing I really like about the Truma versus the Propex heaters is it has combined the exhaust and intake hoses so you just have one hose going to a rather trick external port — way less difficult to plumb in. It’s very quiet and very effective.

As far as safety goes, if you have your bottles in a proper locker with external venting in the bottom, a monitor, and turn off the valve when you’re traveling, propane can be safe. You just can’t be stupid. Yes, it’s explosive, but any combustible material is a risk whether it’s propane or diesel or gasoline. I know some will argue that diesel won’t blow up, but the smell, mess, and a third fuel source is a big issue for me and burning is burning. Propane explosions come from the little green canisters that people are refilling, illegally, or, historically, from three-way, propane refrigerators that had to stay on with the pilot light while you were driving. Driving on the interstate is probably more dangerous than having PROPERLY stored and vented propane in your rig, though some may disagree!

Of course, if you already have a diesel engine rig, then DiploStrat is completely right, it’s the only way to go.

how did you get your hands on a Truma??

been looking at them, but they won’t sell direct to consumer in the US.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

In our existing vehicle we run a Webasto Thermotop E, plus a SureCal 30L calorifier (from the UK) with 2 DIY radiators. It is connected to the engine which provides all the heat while travelling. The calorifier also has a 1,000W immersion element which we use when we have surplus solar.
It is a great system.
The new build will be similar except we will reduce the calorifier to 10L to save weight (with a 1,000W immersion heater). The reheat is so fast that it will not run out of hot water even with several people showering one after another. I will also change from the Webasto to an Eberspacher.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA106 motorhome