Viking Off-Road Recovery Hitch photos

[Scott Brady]

Scott posted some incorrect, misleading information on the Viking and then the argument it is "high end". That, I feel, is pretty silly. . .

What was incorrect or misleading, and what would be my motivation to do so? There were some good points made in this thread, and you can certainly disagree we with me, but why attack me to make your point?

It is just a unique, expensive, nice looking CNC part for the automotive market. Certainly you have seen a few of those in your life. . .

 

[AFSOC]

If the discussion is, this product is $$$$$ and this product is $, with no explanation or though behind it, all we have is peoples preferences without any underlying reasoning.

The comment Scott made was: "So, make a valid argument to the contrary. We are big kids, and nothing wrong with a healthy discussion.The world is full of expensive items." It was only after this that healthy discussion began. It could have begun earlier with no prompting.

Martyn, I always admire your thoughtful debate on many issues but must disagree with you in this instance.

This Viking product has not received unfair treatment. Portal members have given it a fair shake and many (dare I say most) feel that it doesn’t offer enough advantage to be worth spending the 200% price over its competition. The cost is the trigger point. Portal members are not accusing Viking of unjustly charging customers this high price, they are saying the excessive manufacturing costs results in a price point that they can not justify spending for a product that doesn’t offer an appreciable performance advantage.

As I reread these posts, I find it curious that you laud Scott for his post to promote healthy discussion in post 20. In Post 15 Scott states “It is only $50 more than a typical shackle bracket, and IMO, more than twice as good.” which can’t be substantiated. He later (post 26) states “If you would not buy it, or cannot afford it, or don't care to justify the expense, why care so much? Why spend the energy to disparage the product on the forum? In reality, the motivation is obvious. . .” without offering explanation to the accusation of an obvious motivation. If this thread lacks critical thinking or a narrow point of view I think Scott bears as much of the responsibility for that I or the rest of the posters do.

That’s my two cents which may be over valued 200%

Dale

 

[Scott Brady]

In Post 15 Scott states “It is only $50 more than a typical shackle bracket, and IMO, more than twice as good.” which can't be substantiated.
Dale

I am sure you read the entire thread, however you did not include my retraction of that statement in post #52.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=461338&postcount=52

There have been some very good points made in this thread, and I changed my position on several of my original assertions. I was clearly incorrect in my initial assumptions.

Edit: That was my point about critical discussion. I always make an effort to challenge the posters who only disparage a product based on cost. In this case several qualified individuals commented on specific attributes, which I appreciate. From that critical discussion, I adjusted my position to be that the value of the product was its uniqueness and appearance. So that is evidence that I did not have a narrow point of view - my point of view was changed by others. Isn't that what learning and this forum is all about?

 

[Fergie]

Okay, so we know the that the Viking unit is made of 1018 steel. This is your normal, everyday run of the mill(pun?) steel. What is the Warn(or other units) made out of? Is it a type of steel that was selected for it's forgeability? If not, they should re-evaluate.

Reading the description, the Viking unit is made from a billet of 1018 steel, meaning square stock. I don't see this as misleading if you know the etymology of the term.

The Warn unit offers a 1 year warranty from orginal date of purchase; what does the Viking offer?(couldnt find the info on their site)

As for technique, forged items are less expensive due to the mass amount units made; this is the justification for the method and costs involved. CNC is great for small batch, precise runs. This inherently drives the price up.

And now for my own little pseudo-parable:

When I bought my Engel, I needed a slide. I did not want to pay the $270 for the ARB one, and thought I could make one for less...thought being the key word.

All said and done, I spent about $75 on good material(mostly the cost of bearings for the roller mechanism), and put rougly 8 hours in to it. At $30 an hour(cheap compared to normal shop time) that put labor at $240. Without figuring in the cost of consumables, or even OH&P, I spent upwards of $315 for a $270 product that doesnt have as high a quality of fit and finish.

My slide won't fail, and still functions the same as the ARB one, but as I said, the ARB is better, and I would have paid $315 for it, had I known better.

For those of us that won't be buying the Viking unit, I doubt they care; we're not on their radar.

And, if you take the time to browse through the site, you'll find a shackle receiver just like the Warn and Terflex units, for a very similar price.

You are paying for something semi-unique and different, and if you do that, you either a) want people to know that you are buying something unique and different or b) you don't care what other's think and you do what pleases you.

EDIT: How many of you have actually tried this product? Aside from the technical and quantitative aspects that can be compared between two similar units, the rest of your comments are qualitative postulations.

 

[AFSOC]

I am sure you read the entire thread, however you did not include my retraction of that statement in post #52.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=461338&postcount=52

There have been some very good points made in this thread, and I changed my position on several of my original assertions. I was clearly incorrect in my initial assumptions.

Edit: That was my point about critical discussion. I always make an effort to challenge the posters who only disparage a product based on cost. In this case several qualified individuals commented on specific attributes, which I appreciate. From that critical discussion, I adjusted my position to be that the value of the product was its uniqueness and appearance. So that is evidence that I did not have a narrow point of view - my point of view was changed by others. Isn't that what learning and this forum is all about?

Must be fair and note your retraction to your post 15 statements made in post 52. Sorry, fair is fair.

I do think that it is irresponsible to make unfounded claims and unsupported accusations of posters having "obvious motivations". I appreciate that you admittedly changed your view due to the point of view exchanges within the thread. Learning is the best of what internet forums are all about. Civility and well thought postings is what ExPo is all about.

`

 

[wikid]

I have watched this thread from day one and read every post. It's somewhat intimidating to think about posting an opinion, when this type of result happens.
I have enjoyed how it evolved, but think it's getting to the "beating a dead horse stage"
With hesitation, I hit the "submit reply" button
Don

 

[AFSOC]

I have enjoyed how it evolved, but think it's getting to the "beating a dead horse stage"

I whole heartedly agree Don and I appologize for my part in beating that poor dead horse.

Dale