Blaise
Well-known member
It will never be proven. Remember, some people will believe the earth is flat, no matter how much proof is provided.
New Defender News
- Thread starter blackangie
- Start date
It will never be proven. Remember, some people will believe the earth is flat, no matter how much proof is provided.
Highlander
The Strong, Silent Type
Toyota, who always lacked imagination and innovation instinct, will copy a lot of elements from the new Defender and will turn it in better, larger and more capable vehicle, the new TLC 300. 
JeepColorado
Well-known member
Totally agree, I also think some people want something to be true so desperately that they can't possibly see objective reality- it's probably a lot like what the parents of an ugly baby would feel- they love it, no matter what other objective people see.
RoninWanderer
Definitely lost.... ?
Sounds like a heated discussion, as usual! I'm waiting for a test drive and more reports in the field from production units, but I think LR has nailed it with this car and if Scott Brady gives it then that says a lot for me.
I have not owned a LR, but am very interested in replacing my Tacoma with a Defender in the next few years. My previous rig was a Rubicon built for extreme trail use. Nothing will compare to the Rubicon in the rock gardens, but for the rest of our usage (daily driving, long distance and touring/camping), the Jeep was very disappointing. The Tacoma has been great, but underpowered, has worse range than the Jeep and it has a really poor payload. But, it eats up desert trails for breakfast (without the camper on of course)!
I agree with Scott, the front end makes a bumper design complicated, but I trust some smart engineers somewhere will come up with something cool.
I'll wait for the mid-cycle refresh so the bugs can be worked out and reliability determined. I've heard great things from LR owners over the past 7-10 years about reliability and Scott confirmed that. I'd also really like to see a plug-in hybrid version proven in the field as well. I can't justify $80,000 for an ICE at this point in life.
I give a lot of credit to LR for putting these trips on. Not many automotive brands would allow such extensive and rigorous test drives as they did. They are also taking a lot of notes about performance from people who know a thing or two. Hopefully, that informs the production vehicles.
Some people here are comparing this to a JGC. I've owned a JGC, and while it was a wonderful SUV, I do not think they are in the same category of off road performance. Comparable on-road and with daily usage yes, but off road the JGC has some very hard limitations that the new Defender can surpass without modification. But, I see how the two would be comparable at a glance. I loved our JGC, but Jeep keeps that vehicle far away from the Wrangler whereas the Defender is built to go after it as direct competition (whether it succeeds or not, that is the purpose in LR's line up).
I believe LR will sell a ton of these and can't wait for the comparison shoot-outs on YouTube! Bring on the JL Rubicon, the Toyota TRD and others. Oh, and let's toss in the Rivian R1S as well (once it's ready). I think that car might surprise some people too. Good times for the off road truck/suv world, if not the rest of the world right now.
then that says a lot for me.I have not owned a LR, but am very interested in replacing my Tacoma with a Defender in the next few years. My previous rig was a Rubicon built for extreme trail use. Nothing will compare to the Rubicon in the rock gardens, but for the rest of our usage (daily driving, long distance and touring/camping), the Jeep was very disappointing. The Tacoma has been great, but underpowered, has worse range than the Jeep and it has a really poor payload. But, it eats up desert trails for breakfast (without the camper on of course)!
I agree with Scott, the front end makes a bumper design complicated, but I trust some smart engineers somewhere will come up with something cool.
I'll wait for the mid-cycle refresh so the bugs can be worked out and reliability determined. I've heard great things from LR owners over the past 7-10 years about reliability and Scott confirmed that. I'd also really like to see a plug-in hybrid version proven in the field as well. I can't justify $80,000 for an ICE at this point in life.
I give a lot of credit to LR for putting these trips on. Not many automotive brands would allow such extensive and rigorous test drives as they did. They are also taking a lot of notes about performance from people who know a thing or two. Hopefully, that informs the production vehicles.
Some people here are comparing this to a JGC. I've owned a JGC, and while it was a wonderful SUV, I do not think they are in the same category of off road performance. Comparable on-road and with daily usage yes, but off road the JGC has some very hard limitations that the new Defender can surpass without modification. But, I see how the two would be comparable at a glance. I loved our JGC, but Jeep keeps that vehicle far away from the Wrangler whereas the Defender is built to go after it as direct competition (whether it succeeds or not, that is the purpose in LR's line up).
I believe LR will sell a ton of these and can't wait for the comparison shoot-outs on YouTube! Bring on the JL Rubicon, the Toyota TRD and others. Oh, and let's toss in the Rivian R1S as well (once it's ready). I think that car might surprise some people too. Good times for the off road truck/suv world, if not the rest of the world right now.
nickw
Adventurer
#quotethepost
What exactly is the market telling us besides people want them due to novelty? Based on that logic I guess one of the better Expo rigs are those Lambo LM002's?
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nickw
Adventurer
Rivian is compelling for sure along with the Bollinger! In saying that, it does look like if you wanna bump up range you need to step up the the high end batter packs which get $$ fast. I've heard 400-500 range (best case), which is great, but still a limiter when your traveling remote, particularly so with a load and/or a trailer.Sounds like a heated discussion, as usual! I'm waiting for a test drive and more reports in the field from production units, but I think LR has nailed it with this car and if Scott Brady gives it
I have not owned a LR, but am very interested in replacing my Tacoma with a Defender in the next few years. My previous rig was a Rubicon built for extreme trail use. Nothing will compare to the Rubicon in the rock gardens, but for the rest of our usage (daily driving, long distance and touring/camping), the Jeep was very disappointing. The Tacoma has been great, but underpowered, has worse range than the Jeep and it has a really poor payload. But, it eats up desert trails for breakfast (without the camper on of course)!
I agree with Scott, the front end makes a bumper design complicated, but I trust some smart engineers somewhere will come up with something cool.
I'll wait for the mid-cycle refresh so the bugs can be worked out and reliability determined. I've heard great things from LR owners over the past 7-10 years about reliability and Scott confirmed that. I'd also really like to see a plug-in hybrid version proven in the field as well. I can't justify $80,000 for an ICE at this point in life.
I give a lot of credit to LR for putting these trips on. Not many automotive brands would allow such extensive and rigorous test drives as they did. They are also taking a lot of notes about performance from people who know a thing or two. Hopefully, that informs the production vehicles.
Some people here are comparing this to a JGC. I've owned a JGC, and while it was a wonderful SUV, I do not think they are in the same category of off road performance. Comparable on-road and with daily usage yes, but off road the JGC has some very hard limitations that the new Defender can surpass without modification. But, I see how the two would be comparable at a glance. I loved our JGC, but Jeep keeps that vehicle far away from the Wrangler whereas the Defender is built to go after it as direct competition (whether it succeeds or not, that is the purpose in LR's line up).
I believe LR will sell a ton of these and can't wait for the comparison shoot-outs on YouTube! Bring on the JL Rubicon, the Toyota TRD and others. Oh, and let's toss in the Rivian R1S as well (once it's ready). I think that car might surprise some people too. Good times for the off road truck/suv world, if not the rest of the world right now.
REDROVER
Explorer
Market is telling us
That after 150.000 vehicles sold, value is still very up, there must be reason behind, I don’t know what reason, maybe they are way more reliable than Land Rover products?
Let’s see after how many defenders they sale and how much will it be worth in 5 years not 12 years.
As far as the comment about them being rare, what part of a vehicle is rare when they made over 150.000 of them just for USA alone,
U must find another excuse why Land Rover drops in value and h3 didn’t.
That after 150.000 vehicles sold, value is still very up, there must be reason behind, I don’t know what reason, maybe they are way more reliable than Land Rover products?
Let’s see after how many defenders they sale and how much will it be worth in 5 years not 12 years.
As far as the comment about them being rare, what part of a vehicle is rare when they made over 150.000 of them just for USA alone,
U must find another excuse why Land Rover drops in value and h3 didn’t.
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T-Willy
Well-known member
I thought that part of Scott's otherwise excellent review was incomplete; it's something most LR enthusiasts seem to gloss over. But statistically Land Rover is still in 2020 the least reliable car maker. It casts a long shadow over Defender.
Wrangler and Defender's off-road capabilities seem very different to me. With rigid axles but paltry payload, Wrangler is for trails. With IFS/IRS and large payload, Defender is for loaded, extended dirt touring. They'll be similarly impressive mall crawlers.
Amen. Bring us carbon-thrifty and capable truck technology!
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Todd780
OverCamper
DieselRanger
Well-known member
As soon as they develop a 500 mile battery and the ability to charge it overnight while you're sleeping in the middle of the backcountry, I'm in!
Blaise
Well-known member
Looks like you've got your head on straight... slowly going from 'most extreme capability' to 'wildly overbuilt' to 'how much do I really need?' My friends are all going through this process as they age and move from 'tacti-cool' jeeps and toyotas to perfectly capable, stock, comfortable rigs that can still go everywhere without the compromises of enormous tires, heavy armor, poor ride quality, etc. I did a 50k mile roadtrip throughout the US (including Alaska) in 2015-16 and wished the whole time that I had gone with a truck that didn't have a lift, didn't have 33" E-rated tires, and handled a bit better on the road ('06 Xterra). That's how I ended up in my stock LR3 and it's been exactly what I needed.
My personal take is that the really smart engineers already did come up with something cool, no need to go modding bumpers on day 1. We're in the PNW, we don't need to worry about hitting enormous mammals at 60mph, unless you're on the hunt for Sasquatch. If you insist on a winch just option it that way.
PM me if you wanna wheel
(also in PNW)
nickw
Adventurer
Your original post used the H3 Alpha as an example, which is a low volume rig....which according to you has not dropped in value much, cool, we'll take your word for it. The vast majority of H3's, per your wiki pull above, are not unique, have no rarity factor and based on 20 second craigslist search are $6k or less rigs.
JeepColorado
Well-known member
It's a good question @DieselRanger ! How long must the LR fans of the world go around wearing this Scarlet Letter R for Reliability?
How about this- for every 1 year of LR being in the bottom 3rd of the reliability rankings we'll say the new Defender needs to have 4 months of reliability? Not a bad deal for LR- only 4 months of reliability going forward for every 1 year of unreliability in their past. A quick google search says that LR was repeatedly ranked as one of the least reliable vehicles basically for the last 20 years. (I'd have an exact number but got tired of tallying the mediocrity...it was depressing) 20 years divided by 4 months equals 5 years.
In 5 years, if the Defender has proven reliable we can agree to remove the shadow of it's leaky, flat air-bag, electronic gremlin riddled history. Sound fair?
Paddler Ed
Adventurer
Couple of reviews from PistonHeads in the UK:
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/2020-land-rover-defender---the-long-review/42091
and on the tar:
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/2020-land-rover-defender---the-short-review/42090
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/2020-land-rover-defender---the-long-review/42091
and on the tar:
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/2020-land-rover-defender---the-short-review/42090