New Defender News
- Thread starter blackangie
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DieselRanger
Well-known member
A rising tide lifts all boats - they may be rated comparatively low, but when you look at problem reports Jeep is actually rated even lower by all consumer reporting outlets, and when you compare to where they were 20 years ago, they are light years ahead in reliability. Unfortunately Jeep and Land Rover are rated in different classes of vehicle.
Because Land Rover is considered a luxury brand it's lumped in with MB, Audi, Porsche, BMW, Lexus. And in those categories at the top level, what you see is problem reports dominated by niggles - primarily infotainment complaints of "confusing or hard to use" or glitchiness. Luxury vehicle owners are notoriously less tolerant (as they should be) of intermittent glitchiness. Mechanically, almost all vehicles in the Luxury category are durable and reliable.
It's been five years since Land Rover began moving to their new platforms - and the Defender is a new version of that new platform. Give it three years after launch when the first dependability ratings come out. It's a brand new model with lots of brand new bits, so initial quality will have to be taken with a few grains of salt as you can expect some software updates (performed over the air...) and maybe a couple TSBs.
My Disco's TSBs have dribbled to nothing, and the worst of them was preemptively replacing EAS valves that "could" fail in extreme cold weather.
RoninWanderer
Definitely lost.... ?
Looks like you've got your head on straight... slowly going from 'most extreme capability' to 'wildly overbuilt' to 'how much do I really need?' My friends are all going through this process as they age and move from 'tacti-cool' jeeps and toyotas to perfectly capable, stock, comfortable rigs that can still go everywhere without the compromises of enormous tires, heavy armor, poor ride quality, etc. I did a 50k mile roadtrip throughout the US (including Alaska) in 2015-16 and wished the whole time that I had gone with a truck that didn't have a lift, didn't have 33" E-rated tires, and handled a bit better on the road ('06 Xterra). That's how I ended up in my stock LR3 and it's been exactly what I needed.
My personal take is that the really smart engineers already did come up with something cool, no need to go modding bumpers on day 1. We're in the PNW, we don't need to worry about hitting enormous mammals at 60mph, unless you're on the hunt for Sasquatch. If you insist on a winch just option it that way.
PM me if you wanna wheel(also in PNW)
Yeah, and my wildly overbuilt Tacoma isn't even done yet! She's about to go on a diet.
My next rig will be kept as close to stock as possible. Seems no matter where I crawl my truck to, there's already some dude there in a stock-whatever. It's fun to build up rigs but they are mostly vanity anyway.
Deer and Elk are quite common where we live and play, I like a proper bumper. But, it doesn't need to be huge and heavy. My current bumper is lightweight alloy and would fare decently well. I do think that I would consider parts like that more carefully on the next rig....again, as close to stock as possible. I've learned to keep things simple and I've learned it the hard way of course
In this time of quarantine, wheeling out in the desert is all I can do to keep my sanity. Took the camper off and running fast and light. I'll reach out!
Blaise
Well-known member
Exactly how my stock LR3 has been helping convert people to comfy-and-stock life
Just a reminder that there is a specific thread that was created about Rage/Hate for Defender.
If you feel like expressing negative opinions about it, that's the place to go.
expeditionportal.com
If you feel like expressing negative opinions about it, that's the place to go.
New Defender Rage/Hate Thread
It is informative that LR marketing has lost touch with it's roots but so has Toyota with advertisements of pulling couches through the desert. I doubt any of these marketing teams have camped or driven down a 4WD trail. The SUV vs pickup truck mindset.
expeditionportal.com
soflorovers
Well-known member
Thank you. I was about to put the EXPO censoring tool into overdrive (and possibly get myself banned) with an angry expletive-filled rant absolutely **************** on his arguments, but it seems you did so with a calm tone.
soflorovers
Well-known member
As someone pointed out here before, reliability is relative. The vast majority of failures on modern LRs is due to software issues that oftentimes are easily resolved/self fix. Considering that automobiles as a whole are getting much more reliable, I'd love to see the raw data from these rankings to see what the delta between the top 1/3 and bottom 1/3 is. All it takes is a glitchy sat nav or uncooperative radio screen to be at the top or bottom of the rankings.
The only LR to ever leave me stranded was my D2. I've since had (2) LR3's (ultra low and ultra high mileage examples) and a new RRS. My current LR3 has 175k miles and is downright solid. The only other car to leave me stranded somewhere was my previous 1-owner YJ Wrangler with 140k miles. I'd argue that the stigma today is undeserved and is a remnant of the D1, D2, P38 and *shivers in disgust*, Freelander days. LR3/LR4, Gen 1 RRS, L405, L494 are temperamental at worst. By LR standards, they're bulletproof. By normal car standards, they're just as unreliable as any other car I've owned.
nickw
Adventurer
He ain't worth getting banned over - I don't even know why I respond...most of his posts lack any resemblance of thought, logic or level headed thinking.
nickw
Adventurer
Well said. I have a buddy who got into Rover 5 years ago and has since aquired a P38 and an early 2000's Ranger Rover, both with lifts and bumpers but otherwise pretty stock....to your point, very few problems beyond some annoyance issues, but overall very solid rigs. He wheels them, drives down to Baja with them (from Oregon) and puts big miles on them. Both bought site unseen, with 100k miles +/-.
T-Willy
Well-known member
I don't offer this to be contrarian or to compel love or hate, but, for purposes of objective discussion of Defender's remote touring merits, Land Rover's bottom-of-the-class dependability must play prominently.
Land Rover literally builds the least dependable vehicles sold in the U.S.
Land Rover literally builds the least dependable vehicles sold in the U.S.
JeepColorado
Well-known member
I don't offer this to be contrarian or to compel love or hate, but, for purposes of objective discussion of Defender's remote touring merits, Land Rover's bottom-of-the-class dependability must play prominently.
Land Rover literally builds the least dependable vehicles sold in the U.S.
T-Willy, I don't know why you insist on bringing facts, evidence and research into this conversation....there are fantasies to uphold!
T-Willy
Well-known member
After I posted those JD Power statistics I noticed that Expedition Portal had posted a podcast about the Defender (in addition to the video review that I'd earlier seen). Both were really informative and well done overall.
I was pleased to see that the podcast does discuss reliability briefly at the end, and it mentions the 2020 JD Power Dependability Study also.
They spent considerable oxygen arguing that, because Land Rover's 2020 rating is similar to (but still worse than) Toyota's in 2003, a Land Rover today would be similarly reliable to a 100 Series Land Cruiser (from 2003).
To me, this seems a desperate reach. Equally desperate was their deafening silence on the fact that same 2020 data put Land Rover in dead last among care makers--a glaringly relevant fact.
So, lots of desperate optimism, at least to my ears.
I hope they're right--Defender would be a fantastic touring truck if it proves reliable.
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Scott Brady
Founder
Well. . . here is another perspective. We all agree that Lexus (and Toyota) are the high water mark of reliability. In 2003, when Toyota was producing stalwart vehicles like the 100 Series Land Cruiser, the 4.7 Liter Tundra, the 3.4 Liter Tacoma, and others, their defects per 100 vehicles was 201. So, if you will hear me out, a modern Land Rover is just as reliable as a vehicle built by Toyota in 2000, and measured in 2003.I don't offer this to be contrarian or to compel love or hate, but, for purposes of objective discussion of Defender's remote touring merits, Land Rover's bottom-of-the-class dependability must play prominently.
Land Rover literally builds the least dependable vehicles sold in the U.S.
The narrative needs to gain some perspective. All manufacturers are significantly more reliable than ever before, and Land Rover is no different.
Scott Brady
Founder
Interesting that you find it a desperate reach. It is just a perspective based on fact, and I fully disclosed my bias towards the perspective. The intention was to provide some data behind the constant dribble that Land Rovers are entirely unreliable. That is simply not a fact. . . despite the fact that they remain less reliable than a Toyota.
There is a reason I drove Toyotas across Antarctica, but love driving my old Defender around Prescott