LR3 Help

[proper4wd]

Musk,

To be fair you are instilling your idea of what "expedition" means onto somebody who may feel differently. I understand why you would not want to drive up that ledge in an LR3. There are a lot of people out there who would not want to drive up that ledge no matter what, in any vehicle. It is not a universal definition of "expedition".

That being said, I would take great pleasure in following you around Utah in a lightly modified LR3

 

[muskyman]

Musk,

To be fair you are instilling your idea of what "expedition" means onto somebody who may feel differently. I understand why you would not want to drive up that ledge in an LR3. There are a lot of people out there who would not want to drive up that ledge no matter what, in any vehicle. It is not a universal definition of "expedition".

That being said, I would take great pleasure in following you around Utah in a lightly modified LR3

And I would enjoy spotting you through and do everything in my power to make sure you came through unscathed. I bet we would have a fun time.

yes maybe my definition of expedition is different then others, I understand that.

My wife's daily driver also pulls ski car duty all winter long and those are never less then 1000 mile weekends. I think that a LR3 would be great for that kind of expedition. We used a stock DII for 100k miles of this type duty and it worked flawlessly with just thye normal supervision and PM.

 

[Mike_rupp]

Why wouldn't you want to drive up that ledge in a LR3? I thought it was an amazingly capable offroader? That ledge is par for the course in Utah. It isn't anything special. The worst thing that happened to my Disco after a week out there was a broken engine mount. Keep in mind that a $5 strap was looped around the mounts and I was rolling in 5 minutes.

I'd really like to see an LR3 in action out there. How it would do on the first obstacle wouldn't interest me, it would be how it would do after a week.

 

[Explorer 1]

LR3 considerations

I have a friend who is looking at a used LR3 to build up for offroad use and camping. What should he look out for or look for with buying an LR3? What should he know about LR3s? Thanks for your help and insights. I have looked at past posts, etc. He will be doing most of his travels in Utah. Thanks again, Mike

Mike, one thing I would have done differently would be to have purchased the SE instead of the HSE model. If you plan on using the stock rims, the HSE comes with 19" rims and I couldn't find a single quality off-road tire for a 19" rim. The SE comes with 18" rims and there were several available. The LR3 truly is a luxury SUV with a lot more comfort and features than I would usually need. The suspension does have some limitations but for what most do off-roading it is up to the task. Parts and fixes are rather pricy but I guess one would have to fit that into the equation if they were buying one.

In the end, I end up selling it and sticking with my old Cherokee.

Thanks,
Fred
Explorer 1

 

[Navman]

so a week of doing this every day you would take your LR3 over your D1?

Well, I guess I typically wouldn't be doing that every day for a week. As someone mentioned we each have our own definitions of an expedition. I would define that closer to rock crawling.

If I was doing that every day, then yes I would rather have my D1. Damage to $3k vehicle is easier to stomach than to a $50k vehicle. Although I'm sure that LR3 would handle it much better than the D1.

 

[nwoods]

I've been trying to figure out what vehicle MuskyMan actually uses. With his views on simplicity, I was thinking it was this:

But that's way too complex, with many moving parts. So then I thought perhaps one of these:

But then I thought better of it. After all, there are at least 8 bearing sets in this thing, and about a dozen bearings each, that's hundreds of little breakable parts! Let's not even start about the linkages in the chain! My goodness, this contraption is just waiting to fail on you!

So then logically, I started thinking about direct drive setups, like:

But then I took a look at those wheels....all those spokes, a simple branch picked up the trail would be ruinous to that vehicle, so thought about it some more, and I think I finally have it figured out. I'm pretty sure this is what MuskyMan is brave enough to take off pavement:

LOL, of course I'm just having a spot of fun here. I really have no idea what Muskyman drives, nor do I care. Clearly, whatever he has is the greatest possible rig he could wish for, and I'm very happy for him. I just wish he could let others enjoy whatever vehicle they want without being "wrong". After all, I am quite sure I probably can't even FIT in whatever he is driving, so right off the back, we have some incompatibilities. People like different things for different reasons, and they use them differently, or have different criteria and expectations than what you might. Accept that.

Accept the fact that I use my LR3 for long distance trips as far from a dealer's service garage as I can get in CONUS, and I do it regularly and enjoy myself while doing it. I don't let fear of what might happen prevent me experiencing the joys and pleasures the vehicle's capabilities provide.

 

[traveltoad]

Exactly, when you are traveling from one Forest Service improved camp site to the next... with a nice map to show you which graded gravel road leads the way to your reserved picnic table this whole discussion is meaningless.

 

[muskyman]

I've been trying to figure out what vehicle MuskyMan actually uses. With his views on simplicity, I was thinking it was this:

But that's way too complex, with many moving parts. So then I thought perhaps one of these:

But then I thought better of it. After all, there are at least 8 bearing sets in this thing, and about a dozen bearings each, that's hundreds of little breakable parts! Let's not even start about the linkages in the chain! My goodness, this contraption is just waiting to fail on you!

So then logically, I started thinking about direct drive setups, like:

But then I took a look at those wheels....all those spokes, a simple branch picked up the trail would be ruinous to that vehicle, so thought about it some more, and I think I finally have it figured out. I'm pretty sure this is what MuskyMan is brave enough to take off pavement:

LOL, of course I'm just having a spot of fun here. I really have no idea what Muskyman drives, nor do I care. Clearly, whatever he has is the greatest possible rig he could wish for, and I'm very happy for him. I just wish he could let others enjoy whatever vehicle they want without being "wrong". After all, I am quite sure I probably can't even FIT in whatever he is driving, so right off the back, we have some incompatibilities. People like different things for different reasons, and they use them differently, or have different criteria and expectations than what you might. Accept that.

Accept the fact that I use my LR3 for long distance trips as far from a dealer's service garage as I can get in CONUS, and I do it regularly and enjoy myself while doing it. I don't let fear of what might happen prevent me experiencing the joys and pleasures the vehicle's capabilities provide.

Nice Nathen...well I would respond but my posts get pulled around here while others can jab away.LOL

 

[ShottsCruisers]

LOL fair defence?

distributorless ignition: this has to be one of the largest failure points in modern off road truck. Crank position sensors go bad, Cam position sensors go bad. more coils means more chance of a failure and they all end up in a run issue or complete failure that strands trucks.

fuel injection: read above since most are tied in to each other. Also because they require high pressure fuel pumps you have another major failure point.

You say " they are different and must be viewed differently" thats just not true if all you want to do is get to a destination and back without issues of vehicle failure. I will agree that when working correctly some of the new features are pretty cool and down right impresive. But thats when they are working correctly.

There are reliable vehicles out there that have new technology like this and are ultra reliable. The LR3 is not one of them though there are modern choices than hold up better than older and simpler ones.

 

[muskyman]

Exactly, when you are traveling from one Forest Service improved camp site to the next... with a nice map to show your while graded gravel road leads the way to your reserved picnic table this whole discussion is meaningless.

exactly:applause:

the definition of expedition seems to be the key variable here.

I dont claim to take "expeditions" but I take lots of 1000 mile weekends where I drive to get there wheel my truck hard off road and then drive it home.

When it breaks I fix it, when one in my group breaks more often then not I fix that one. When I come across one on the trail broken I fix that one as well. I have been doing this long enough that I know everything breaks. Being able to fix it in a self suffcient way is what I am talking about.

Go ahead and attack me for my comments on the LR3, I know the truth and the truth is none of you driving LR3's off road have what it takes to fix your your trucks when they fail because you cant pack the dealer into a Pelican case. I guess I will just sit back and play the villian because I am willing to speak the truth.

 

[muskyman]

There are reliable vehicles out there that have new technology like this and are ultra reliable. The LR3 is not one of them though there are modern choices than hold up better than older and simpler ones.

I never said there were not modern vehicles that have proven reliable.

I simply said that simple wins when it comes to a true expedition truck.

That is a very correct statement.

 

[traveltoad]

Go ahead and attack me for my comments on the LR3, I know the truth and the truth is none of you driving LR3's off road have what it takes to fix your your trucks when they fail because you cant pack the dealer into a Pelican case. I guess I will just sit back and play the villian because I am willing to speak the truth.

I think there seems to be a bit of confusion between "reliability" and (trail) "repairability".

An LR3 maybe 10x more reliable than a DII or a DI (or a Series III), I have no idea. But at some point, somewhere, something will fail. Either it will just fail, or due to driver error a part may be pushed into failure. Again, the LR3 may be a tenth as likely to succumb to the failure, I have no idea. The question is... what happens when it does fail. As musky has rightly pointed out, it will fail at some point regardless of the statistical reliability of a model. So then what? Now does "simple" make a little more sense?

 

[proper4wd]

I know the truth and the truth is none of you driving LR3's off road have what it takes to fix your your trucks when they fail because you cant pack the dealer into a Pelican case. I guess I will just sit back and play the villian because I am willing to speak the truth.

You are correct, to an extent. To delve into this yet further, what do you define as a failure? Check engine light on with no apparent symptoms? Mysterious operation of body electrics? Inop heated seat?

If you want to define *any* failure as *a* failure, then you are 100% correct.

I think the most applicable definition of failure, when relating to "expedition travel" (whatever that means), is anything that renders the vehicle immobilised. This could be because of a broken mechanical part (differential, suspension linkage, etc) or because of an electrical failure (security system fails causing a lockout).

The set of all other failures is meaningless because they do not affect greater vehicle operation. All vehicles suffer from these; D1 rear windows anyone? RRC seat switches?

Only counting failures that render the vehicle immobilised, there are all sorts of things that could happen to any vehicle. Disco brake switches, water pump, crank position sensors, cam sensors, security ECU, EFI ECU, VSS, etc. The list is potentially long, and not much different from the list I would make for an LR3.

Point being, it's all a crapshoot. And trust me I understand your argument for simplicity; there's a reason I bought a '95. I can make the 14CUX system run with a pocket full of paperclips and a few select spare parts

 

[proper4wd]

I would also like to throw this little tidbit in case anyone actually weeds through this thread looking for technical information

Many mysterious faults/problems on newer LRs (RRIII, LR3, RRS) can be at least cleared and potentially fixed by performing a "hard reset". This entails removing the positive battery cable completely and putting a jumper wire between the disconnected positive cable and the negative battery terminal. Leave it this way for a few minutes. This grounds the positive side of the circuit and completely resets all of the ECUs and modules in the car.

The earlier given example of the LR3 that EAS faulted and dropped to the stops would have been a prime candidate for this. It has successfully cleared and fix a whole range of things for me, from radio errors to EAS faults to window switches not working.

 

[muskyman]

You are correct, to an extent. To delve into this yet further, what do you define as a failure? Check engine light on with no apparent symptoms? Mysterious operation of body electrics? Inop heated seat?

If you want to define *any* failure as *a* failure, then you are 100% correct.

I think the most applicable definition of failure, when relating to "expedition travel" (whatever that means), is anything that renders the vehicle immobilised. This could be because of a broken mechanical part (differential, suspension linkage, etc) or because of an electrical failure (security system fails causing a lockout).

The set of all other failures is meaningless because they do not affect greater vehicle operation. All vehicles suffer from these; D1 rear windows anyone? RRC seat switches?

Only counting failures that render the vehicle immobilised, there are all sorts of things that could happen to any vehicle. Disco brake switches, water pump, crank position sensors, cam sensors, security ECU, EFI ECU, VSS, etc. The list is potentially long, and not much different from the list I would make for an LR3.

Point being, it's all a crapshoot. And trust me I understand your argument for simplicity; there's a reason I bought a '95. I can make the 14CUX system run with a pocket full of paperclips and a few select spare parts

well we are in agreement again.

I would consider a failure anyhting that changes the performance level to the point the truck no longer does what it needs to do to get off the trail and back to someplace you can get help instead of have to help yourself.

A hard fault that drops a truck to its bump stops would be a failure just as a failed roto flex on a D1 or DII would be a failure as a example, even though you could maybe get them back to help. Failure that strand you all clearly fit the bill.

To answer the question of the hour I have a 94 D1 as my trail truck. The reason I have this one is it is simple and very reliable. Add into that the fact it will go where I want it to and it can be fixed on the trail very easily. Does it have its potential failure points? Sure it does but I can and do carry what I need to to over come those as well as I have upgraded many parts to prevent others.