Rig question...Cornbinder
- Thread starter BIGdaddy
- Start date
Marcie's Disco
Adventurer
I would suggest checking out www.binderbulletin.org . This forum is one of the best resources for IH info and support. I also spent several days a week on off-road.com's Binder page when I was building my 1975 Scout II.
My Scout has a 345 2V but IH engines are known for commonality. The 392 is a common and bolt in swap. The cylinder blocks are HUGE and have a high nickle content. There is no natural life expectancy hurdle. These engines were used in busses and dump trucks for decades with good result. Lugging around a TravelAll or Scout is not that much of a chore for the crank and block. I have found that NAPA is a source for about every part of the IH V8 you can think of.
http://forums.off-road.com/search.php?searchid=158437
www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?7376-4bt-Scout-II
:safari-rig:
My Scout has a 345 2V but IH engines are known for commonality. The 392 is a common and bolt in swap. The cylinder blocks are HUGE and have a high nickle content. There is no natural life expectancy hurdle. These engines were used in busses and dump trucks for decades with good result. Lugging around a TravelAll or Scout is not that much of a chore for the crank and block. I have found that NAPA is a source for about every part of the IH V8 you can think of.
http://forums.off-road.com/search.php?searchid=158437
www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?7376-4bt-Scout-II
:safari-rig:
shortbus4x4
Expedition Leader
Do you own an IH, if so welcome to the sickness. I think my current count of IH vehicles is 7, you can't have just one. I have a 66 IH Traveall Ambulance I am thinking of doing the 4bt swap in myself. The nice thing about the fullsize Internationals is they have a divorced transfercase so you can just get an engine/trans in and only have to worry about changing one little driveline. I would recommend a trans that has overdrive because most Interationals are geared a little on the low side for diesels. Binder Planet is another good source for IH info. I have read of both swaps being done into Scouts and Travelalls. The SV line of engines are really good and if you put a modern ignition system on and TBI you would have a pretty good powerplant that wouldn't be too hard on gas for the rig its in and it would be lots cheaper than a diesel swap unless you have the 4bt already.
BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
very close to pullin' the trigger on one. 1967 Travelall. Finding out the info on the drivetrain right now...
It's in good condition and apparently the owner uses it several times a week, so maybe upgrades are all I need rather than a swap.
I've heard that some motors (304, 345 possibly?) are good for around 16-18mpgs on the highway with the upgrades you mentioned. That about right?
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Wow, that would be quite a build. I actually owned a 67 (I think) Travelall. It had a 345 V8 with no smog controls - it was a tank! OTOH, it also had a small steering wheel and manual steering (******?) so it wasn't much fun to drive in the city.
Jim K in PA
Adventurer
Brian - also check in at oldihc.org. There are some very knowledgable people on the forums there.
I have a pair of early 70s Loadstars with 4bbl 392s. They get around 9mpg, but the truck weighs over 6 tons empty. Supposedly the 345 gets about the same mileage as the 304. The 392 is a torque monster, but does eat the fuel. The engines are incredible durable, readily rebuildable, and weigh a lot!
I would stay with any of the SV engines instead of a 4BT. If'n your going to do a diesel swap, go with a 7.3 IDI. Keep it Red Powered!
I have a pair of early 70s Loadstars with 4bbl 392s. They get around 9mpg, but the truck weighs over 6 tons empty. Supposedly the 345 gets about the same mileage as the 304. The 392 is a torque monster, but does eat the fuel. The engines are incredible durable, readily rebuildable, and weigh a lot!
I would stay with any of the SV engines instead of a 4BT. If'n your going to do a diesel swap, go with a 7.3 IDI. Keep it Red Powered!
Marcie's Disco
Adventurer
No, not a good assumption. The IH is a low horsepower, low rev, high torque and high weight mill. Very much on the industrial side of the scale as opposed to the automotive.
I have had very good luck with my 345/ Torqflite 727 combo in my Scout II. I got 14-15 mpg on a Montana to Florida round trip several years ago.
BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
Ok, good to know. Still haven't heard back from the seller, so now I'm really interested to hear what he's got in there.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
We had a 1970 Travelall 1100 (I think) which I drove when in high school and after. It's still at my mom's and I still think about bringing it back to life and converting it to 4WD. It has the 392 V8 w/4bbl Holley with a T-18 gearbox w/6.32:1 1st gear.
We towed some incredible loads with it.
I would think an early F-250 diesel (made by IH) wouldn't be a hard conversion.
x2 on binderbulletin
We towed some incredible loads with it.
I would think an early F-250 diesel (made by IH) wouldn't be a hard conversion.
x2 on binderbulletin
shortbus4x4
Expedition Leader
I think you could probably get that MPG with the right mods, fuel injection, proper gearing, etc. Think of the International SV(304,345,392) engines as an industrial engine that was put in an automotive application. I love the C-series Internationals. Another good website is IHonlynorth. Make sure the rear quarter windows are good, they can be hard to find if they are cracked. Both binderplanet and ihonlynorth have a member called fungus who just got a late 60's Travelall and he has posted lots of good questions and gotten some good answers on both sites. It would be lots cheaper to convert your 304 to FI and electronic ignition than put a diesel in it, especially since it seems like the days of lower than gas diesel are gone. The oldihc website seems to be geared more towards the guys who have tractors and loadstars and old trucks than scouts and travelalls but it is still a pretty cool site and has some really good info. Another site I like is called justinternationals, its a site geared for guys living around spokane wa area but has some good info. Any other questions you have just ask, I have been a cornbinder nut ever since I bought my first when I was 16.
AmericaOverland
Explorer
BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
So, what of this rumor that some of these rigs were used by Nat.Geo?
I searched a bit, but only found one pic of a faded label on a door. Any info on what year they used?
So, I talked to the seller, he's not sure if its a 304 or a 345, but he says that so many parts (water pump as an example he gave) use the same part number no matter which engine, that he never had to find out...He's had the rig for a while now doing his best to drive it and restore it.
He said its a 4 speed manual with a granny first. Is this the t18?
Tcase has the standard 2hi-N-4hi-4Lo pattern. Is this the Np205? (in a divorced setup as mentioned earlier?)
He wasn't sure at all on the axles, so they're probably stock. D44 front and say a D60/D70 rear maybe?
I searched a bit, but only found one pic of a faded label on a door. Any info on what year they used?
So, I talked to the seller, he's not sure if its a 304 or a 345, but he says that so many parts (water pump as an example he gave) use the same part number no matter which engine, that he never had to find out...He's had the rig for a while now doing his best to drive it and restore it.
He said its a 4 speed manual with a granny first. Is this the t18?
Tcase has the standard 2hi-N-4hi-4Lo pattern. Is this the Np205? (in a divorced setup as mentioned earlier?)
He wasn't sure at all on the axles, so they're probably stock. D44 front and say a D60/D70 rear maybe?
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BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
great info, thanks SO much!
shortbus4x4
Expedition Leader
The T-34,35, 36 are all 5 speed transmissions. One is an overdrive, I forget which, the other two are direct in 5th. Some guys say the OD one has too big of a jump between 3 and 4 for heavy towing, the direct trans are a little closer geared.
I think your t-case would be a 205 but I know NP202's were installed too. Tag on the back of the t-case should tell you what it is.
If its a 3/4 ton its probably got the 44 front and 60 rear. They do have a funky 6 lug pattern on some of the 3/4 tons of that era though.
A lot of the Travelalls of that era had the 304 but it all depends on how the original customer had it built. If you get it do some research and get a line setting ticket for it. That will tell you exactly what it left the factory with.
I have heard the same rumor about National Geo using these for expo rigs but haven't really seen much info on it.