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I'll just use this as an example of context and how projection factors into these discussions. If you make that statement above within the context of someone couched as "pro gun," then you get a pass. If I say it, under the auspices of being "anti-gun," then I'm vying for the banishment of guns...

Touche on the "give an inch" cliche. For what it's worth, both of my friends in Chicago were able to obtain handguns, CCW permits and plenty of instruction without any strife or stress. Not saying those laws are ideal, but they do not prohibit qualified persons from owning and carrying guns.

Some people, and I'm just going to jump in and say those like you, don't realize that the very sentence above is what many of us, whom you assume are "anti-gun," are hoping we can achieve. For the vast majority of people you elect to diametrically oppose, the end game is not to remove your...

I'm still reticent to dig back into this discussion, but I have to laud you for your thoughtful additions. Each side of this discussion is represented by voices that either advance the legitimacy of their position, or erode it with vitriol, snark, innuendo, or just good old ignorance. Then, in...

To put this in context, I was referring to anyone lumped in the "anti-gun" crowd and how not all of us have a desire to see guns removed from the hands of responsible individuals. Just because some of us see room for more effective regulations, that should not read as - we want to ban guns.

Is that directed at me?

If you love your daughter. If you hope to help her pay for college....don't buy a Rover from those years. Any of them.

When I rode my mountain bike into Lake Aftlavatn in 2014, I arrived there just in time for 45 mph winds, heavy rain, and sleet. The next morning there were three tents standing, mine one of them. About a dozen more were in ruins. Tough, tough night. Riding the trails above Landmanalauger...

The lefty fork design is really unique and that goes way beyond the funky aesthetic. Odd as is sounds, it is extremely stiff, torsionally (twisting). That helps immensely with steering accuracy. The internals of the fork are squared. That reduces much of the twisting flex that all manufacturers...

JWP58, I think this conversation, for me, has run its course. It's already devolving. It's not even really a discussion anymore as it's just point and counterpoint for the sake of it, even when I agree with you and Dalko. There's also too much projection. You and Dalko continue to project my...

This is why I'm exiting this conversation. There's no need for snark and disrespect. I'm above it. You're above it. It degrades the entire discourse. I'm disappointed this is the direction these conversations always go. It's a shame. It's unfortunate as I was actually in agreement with you on...

Scientific data requires an isolation of controls. The only thing that can be derived from the Chicago stats is that the application of strict controls without any means of isolating them will yield inconclusive results. So, as many of you would agree, that's an ineffective application of gun...

Not at all. Just that as a data set, it is corrupt. It's like taking a census and counting all the tourists.

Unfortunately, those examples provide corrupted data as the strict gun regulations in those cities are easily circumvented by bringing in weapons from neighboring states. 66% of guns used for crimes in Chicago alone come from outside the city. It serves as an example for the ineffectiveness of...

And again, as someone who admits they hate guns - I think that is awesome and would never hope to see that scenario change. It's the guns in the wrong hands I hope someday will be in check.

JWP58, I'm sensing this discussion is about to get ugly, and I'll be seriously bummed if that happens. So far everyone has been very polite, intelligent, and not projecting any derision or disrespect. Let's keep it that way for the sake of the integrity of the discussion and keeping this thread...

This is hyperbole or an oblique argument at best. There is nothing punitive about the application of regulations in the gun, or any other sector. We aren't being "punished" because we can't have brand new Defenders here. They just don't meet our goofy regulations. And again, this conversation...

I think you guys are taking the automobile parallel too literally. The takeaway is that our society made a collective decision to address automobile safety as a public concern and made efforts to make it safer. We have the ability to do the same with guns. Will we do so is the question. I can...

I think that is a generalization that maybe isn't entirely true, at least not for me. To be frank, I really hate guns. I grew up around them, respect them, but if they all vanished, I'd be stoked. But, that's not going to happen. I have scads of friends and family that love their guns and...

I don't know if it makes anyone feel better, but these dialogues, when approached by all with a degree of open mindedness can be helpful. Two years ago, I would have likely been in the "ban them all" bunch. Through discussions with level heads on all sides, the middle ground becomes visible, and...