05+ taco frame damage issues

[viter]

turns out 2 guys are having the same issue with their 05+ tacomas - a motor mount breaking into the frame rail, I guess due to weakness of the frame in that spot

just thought others should be aware and if you know of anybody else who had similar issue with these trucks please let these 2 guys know - all info on TTORA - http://ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49360&page=1&pp=30

 

[Dave Bennett]

Good info, thanks.

 

[viter]

you are welcome!

and just so you guys know, first sign of damage was fan rubbing on the fan shroud, so be aware

 

[Brian894x4]

I was afraid an issue like this might crop up.

The older pre-Tacos trucks had Japanese designed and made frames and are not only fully boxed, they're actually internally gusseted. Cut a frame in half, especially at the front end, and you'll see double walls and gussets. It's one of the pains of drilling or torching through an older IFS frame to do an SAS. But I'm glad it's designed that way as frame problems, other than rust, is a non-issue for the older trucks.

Ever since the first Taco came out, Dana has been designing and building the frames to my understanding.

First you have the rear C channel frame of the original Taco, which had issues with severe loads, then you have the mostly C Channel frame of the Tundra and how you have the new Taco frame, which looks to me like a carbon copy of the Tundra frame.

I can't for the life of me understand why Toyota went away from it's 1 ton class frames of old to this new design, except to theorize that the original and current Taco frames are crumple zone crash test friendly and unlike the older trucks which were based on a 1 ton global design, no Taco is ever designed for more than ½ ton class capacity.

I love Toyotas and I know Tacos are good rigs and I love the fact the Americans have jobs building these rigs, but I just really wish Toyota would go back to at least Japanese designed parts, if not built. Especially in a components as critical as the frame.

Unfortunately, Toyota has moved the opposite direction. Less of the current Tacoma is Japanese designed and manufactures than even the prior model.

I doubt you'd see this same problem on the FJ and 4runner which are still all Japanese, and still all fully boxed, fully gusseted, heavy duty, 1 ton class frames.

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative.

 

[p1michaud]

Tacoma frames

I can’t for the life of me understand why Toyota went away from it’s 1 ton class frames of old to this new design, except to theorize that the original and current Taco frames are crumple zone crash test friendly and unlike the older trucks which were based on a 1 ton global design, no Taco is ever designed for more than ½ ton class capacity.

Brian,
I've read an interesting post here about ARB bull bars and Tacoma frames the other day and felt that one of the responses was quite insightful especially with respect to the different truck frames. Here is what I though was interesting:

“Remember, these bumpers are designed in Australia for use on the Hilux trucks which have a standard 1-ton frame for all models. The Tacoma is only sold in N.A., and is only designed as a 1/2-ton frame since Toyota knows it won't be subjected to the same load ranges as in other parts of the world, and the fact that Americans will buy a larger truck for the heavier loads. Full-size pickups aren't as available in other parts of the world and are impractical due to their size, especially in rural areas.”

It’s a bit off topic, but the information is related to the manufacturing of frames. I’m not sure how valid this explanation is but it does sound reasonable. I’m wondering if Toyota would provide any additional insight.

Cheers :beer:,
P

 

[Lost Canadian]

I agree....,'but' while I wish the Taco mimicked the Hilux in every sense I can't be all that disappointed with my 05. The new Tacoma's do have a big C channel rear half of frame and it 'is' gusseted like the older Yota trucks. You can clearly see the two layers of steel and I will take pics if some would like to see it. For the front half of the frame well it is also boxed and gusseted very much like the old yotas. Something newer to Toyota's frames however is the introduction heat treated steel something not done to the frames of old. The heat treatment makes the frames steel a lot stronger and more ridged.

So really I think it's hard to say the frames of old were "better." Beefier, perhaps, but size doesn't always equate to increased strength. Not to mention we've all seen cracked frames before on the 1-ton trucks so it's not like it doesn't or didn't happen. I am disappointed to see something like this happen to a couple 05's but I know things of this nature can happen and have happened in the past. I also take some comfort away with the fact that the 05+ frame is very much improved upon over the last gen Tacoma, which in it's own right was a lot better then the competition, my 00 was a great little truck anyway, so perhaps not all hope is lost....

 

[Brian894x4]

Well, I read that whole thread and I'm even more shocked that I was before. It does appear there's some kind of defect in the mount design. Not necessarily the frame itself, but how it's attached to the frame. It does look like the frame is too weak in that area. But a larger mount or gussetts could have been added to overcome that problem.

The problem as I see in the old truck verses Taco debate, is that we used to benefit from trucks that were specificly designed for a global market, which included heavy duty commerical use overseas where many trucks never saw a paved road. Our older trucks, including the torsion bar IFS versions were commonly used overseas in applications and under conditions that we couldn't even imagine here. But the trucks were still essentially the same, even though few people in America would ever carry the same 1 ton loads off road in the middle of Australia.

Ever since the Tacoma was a North American exclusive product, that changed. But the benefit to us has been a FAR superior road truck, with more power, better handling and steering response. But the cost has been the lack of over engineering, with many parts of all of the Tacos being outsourced to manufactures, like Dana, that had nothing to do with the older trucks. Since Tacos are never intended to carry 1 ton loads or see the extreme abuse of the Hilux, they were able to skimp in some design areas. Since most of us don't "rock crawl" with our expedition rigs, it's less of an issue than people who go out and do extreme wheeling or extreme modifications.

Don't get me wrong, both the old and new Taco are still a superior rigs in almost everyway compared to the competition. If I had to buy a brand new truck, it would definately be the new Taco. And my dream rig is a prior gen Taco 4 door like Scott's. But I've just come to respect the diffence in the rigs build in Japan, like the older mini-trucks, 4Runners, Land Cruisers and the new FJ.

As far as the older trucks and frame cracking, I'm pretty sure any cracking frames is almost exclusively due to rust issues, which are pretty prevelent in certain parts of the country. The fully foxed frame doesn't help much in those situations.

One really nice thing about the Taco that I do like is that they share the same front suspension and steering as the Hilux, 4Runner, and FJ. I'm not a fan of rack and pinion steering, but Toyota has obviously found a durable IFS and steering set up if it's good enough to run on those same rigs overseas. And of course, the new Taco has an awesome engine, and transmissions.

Like I said, the new Tacos are awesome, but they could have been even better if Toyota just stuck to it's roots, instead of outsourcing the design and manufacture of so many of it's parts. Just my opinion.

I hope the engine mount issue is solved by Toyota.

 

[Dave Bennett]

I agree....,'but' while I wish the Taco mimicked the Hilux in every sense I can't be all that disappointed with my 05. The new Tacoma's do have a big C channel rear half of frame and it 'is' gusseted like the older Yota trucks. You can clearly see the two layers of steel and I will take pics if some would like to see it. For the front half of the frame well it is also boxed and gusseted very much like the old yotas. Something newer to Toyota's frames however is the introduction heat treated steel something not done to the frames of old. The heat treatment makes the frames steel a lot stronger and more ridged.

So really I think it's hard to say the frames of old were "better." Beefier, perhaps, but size doesn't always equate to increased strength. Not to mention we've all seen cracked frames before on the 1-ton trucks so it's not like it doesn't or didn't happen. I am disappointed to see something like this happen to a couple 05's but I know things of this nature can happen and have happened in the past. I also take some comfort away with the fact that the 05+ frame is very much improved upon over the last gen Tacoma, which in it's own right was a lot better then the competition, my 00 was a great little truck anyway, so perhaps not all hope is lost....

:iagree:

 

[DaveInDenver]

Ever since the first Taco came out, Dana has been designing and building the frames to my understanding.

Dana has been making Toyota truck frames in their Stockton, CA plant since 1994, so the tail end of the US Hilux production involved Dana-built frames. NUMMI came online in 1992 and by 1994 most all North American Hiluxes were built here. In any case, the design is still Toyota, just the manufacturing is not done back in Japan or Fremont. Dana was actually one of the first non-Toyota companies (besides the ones they bought, like Bodine) to make parts in North America for Toyota assembly here. Toyota brought Aisin-Seiki and Denso (they own controlling interests in both) with them when they started production here, but I dunno how much is done here verses back in Japan.

 

[Cackalak Han]

Just bumping this up to see if any more have reported failures. I know over at TTORA, there have been a few cases with Tacoma's. Any 4Runners or FJ Cruisers reported any issues with the mount/frame?

 

[HoosierTacoma08]

Just bumping this up to see if any more have reported failures. I know over at TTORA, there have been a few cases with Tacoma's. Any 4Runners or FJ Cruisers reported any issues with the mount/frame?

colvilletacoma over on TN has this issue.....but now that I think of it he's been on TTORA as well. Here's a link anyhow...


http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278781

 

[UK4X4]

Just a note the hilux's here in the middle east are all made in Thailand !

not japan...

we just got a brand new D4D diesel twin cab for work, and I noticed whilst I was rumaging under the hood to see what engine size it was

 

[4Rescue]

I was afraid an issue like this might crop up.

The older pre-Tacos trucks had Japanese designed and made frames and are not only fully boxed, they're actually internally gusseted. Cut a frame in half, especially at the front end, and you'll see double walls and gussets. It's one of the pains of drilling or torching through an older IFS frame to do an SAS. But I’m glad it’s designed that way as frame problems, other than rust, is a non-issue for the older trucks.

Ever since the first Taco came out, Dana has been designing and building the frames to my understanding.

First you have the rear C channel frame of the original Taco, which had issues with severe loads, then you have the mostly C Channel frame of the Tundra and how you have the new Taco frame, which looks to me like a carbon copy of the Tundra frame.

I can’t for the life of me understand why Toyota went away from it’s 1 ton class frames of old to this new design, except to theorize that the original and current Taco frames are crumple zone crash test friendly and unlike the older trucks which were based on a 1 ton global design, no Taco is ever designed for more than ½ ton class capacity.

I love Toyotas and I know Tacos are good rigs and I love the fact the Americans have jobs building these rigs, but I just really wish Toyota would go back to at least Japanese designed parts, if not built. Especially in a components as critical as the frame.

Unfortunately, Toyota has moved the opposite direction. Less of the current Tacoma is Japanese designed and manufactures than even the prior model.

I doubt you'd see this same problem on the FJ and 4runner which are still all Japanese, and still all fully boxed, fully gusseted, heavy duty, 1 ton class frames.

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative.

Agreed, looking at the frame under my Runner always makes me smile... Damn that thing is beefy eh

Adn good info and a good read, thanks to the OP'r for passing this along. Toyota needs to stick to what has made them legendary: overbuilding small trucks.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Layonnn]

Just bumping this up to see if any more have reported failures. I know over at TTORA, there have been a few cases with Tacoma's. Any 4Runners or FJ Cruisers reported any issues with the mount/frame?

Wow, surprised in reading this thread.

There is one guy over on the FJ forum. But, and it's a big but, he wheels the snot out of his rig.

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/misc-technical-discussion/74262-i-broke-my-frame.html

 

[DaveInDenver]

Bumping very old thread, although seemingly still relevant.

Does anyone have additional information on years that have affected frames? Seems this is very much still an ongoing issue.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/new...tacoma-could-have-frame-rust-may-get-free-fix

States included in letter.

CT. DE. IL. IN. KY. MA. MD. ME. MI. MN. NH. NJ. NY. OH. PA. RI. VA. VT. WI. WV.

Letter reads

Toyota has received reports that certain 2005 through 2009 model year Tacoma vehicles operated in specific cold climate areas with high road salt use may exhibit more-than-normal corrosion to the vehicles frame. Toyota investigated these reports and determined that the frames in some vehicles may not have corrosion-resistant protection sufficient for use in these areas.

This combined with prolonged exposure to road salts and other environmental factors, may contribute to the development of more-than-normal rust in the frame of some vehicles. This condition is unrelated to and seperate from normal surface rust which is commonly found on metallic surfaces after some years of usage and/or exposure to the environment.

Has anyone into this? There are many 2nd gen Tacos around here. We are seriously considering them and was burnt on a 2001 that lived in SLC, so I know that it's not just Rust Belt states that need to be aware of this issue. OTOH, there are a whole lot of 1st and 2nd gen Tacomas (as well as Tundras) around here so I wonder how widespread this really is.

Kind of sad that my Toyota truck inspection kit now includes coveralls, a magnet and a ball peen hammer. :-( I bought my '91 and never once then nor now seriously worry about my frame buckling, much less the visual aspect of a flaking, rusty frame.