1120 AF Build in Norway

[Geo.Lander]

Having two Webasto units heating two circuits is not redundancy. The ability to heat the habitat from the Webasto or engine is. I would suggest whoever is advising two units (and the added expense) is , not to put too fine a point in it, wrong.

So, I'd like to explain myself a bit too. More reasoning for having separate systems is I am on the fence between hot air/water systems in for the habitat, I was going to use Webasto units for both but Truma also make some very attractive combi diesel units (6D). They claim to be powerful and compact and for me simplifies the whole install quite a bit. Webasto do not offer a true combi unit, but something called hybrid which has the advantage of being mountable outside the habitat and uses both gas and diesel. However, I only plan to use gas for cooking and would like to avoid a large scale gas install if possible..

 

[Sitec]

I found out today to need to be able to disconnect the habitat from the truck in theory, so the habitat needs to be more or less self contained on the frame. This means I am also unsure if I will be allowed to have a hatch from the truck to the habitat module

What's the reason for this? Much easier if it's all one... Tanks, battery leads, hoses, etc etc can all be linked to the chassis...

 

[Geo.Lander]

What's the reason for this? Much easier if it's all one... Tanks, battery leads, hoses, etc etc can all be linked to the chassis...

It is concerning the vehicle registration, If i want to simplify this and have it registered as a light truck here the habitat should be able to be removed from the chassis. I also think water and battery should be inside the cabin for climate reasons. If i go for the truma combi (heat and water) unit then that too will be mounted inside the cabin.

 

[Joe917]

If you register as a light truck (and you will not be that light,over 7000kgs) you may be required to stop at weigh scales. You will be exempt as a motorhome. Motorhome insurance is probably cheaper. Check.
You can always build an externally vented section of the box to handle things like the Webasto, but that will eat into living space, better on the chassis if possible.
We have Webasto ThermoTop C supplying two radiators in the cabin and one in the storage box. No fan noise,as simple as you can get. The cabin heats very comfortably and evenly. We have been at -20C and the cabin has remained at 20C.

 

[Geo.Lander]

so the design phase is fully underway, i was busy last night trying to come up with a floor plan but i struggled to find any consensus from the main builders i like about bathroom placement and size. We will have a fairly open layout with probably less overhead cabinets than most but the question for now is what is the ideal bathroom size?

• composting toilet (recommendations welcome)
• build or bought stainless shower pan with wood inlays
• no sink
• toilet and shower can have overlapping "foot space" while seated
• wet room OK

(inside dimensions quick sketch i made for ormocar)

 

[Sitec]

We have gone with a Natures Head. Both the Natures Head and Air Head seem to be the best options. I think the Air Head needs less access space. It's worth noting that having a compost toilet in the same room as the shower is not ideal. For that reason we have gone with separate rooms. Our plans attached and to scale. Body 6m long x 2.5m wide. There's a few minor things that have changed, but the walls and layout still the same.

 

[VerMonsterRV]

We use the AirHead. It is a better option for smaller bathrooms as it is more compact and can be mounted right up to the wall. The key with any of these toilets is not to let water into them, one of the reasons we went with a dry bath. After a year of full time living we are still very happy we have a dry bath.

 

[grizzlyj]

A Separett toilet has swappable containers to give more volume. Very good lids.
Will the shower drain and plumbing go straight down through the floor? Or will the tray be elevated to allow pipes to go underneath? How will you fix the toilet down to the wet shower tray (if that's what you meant?) If you have plumbing under the tray will you need to lift the tray up again?

Our Mog camper had an Eber D5WS correctly plumbed in to the engine circuit, but then a pair of Ts to a loop running all around the camper floor to calorifier and air blown heat exchanger. Every time the taps on those Ts were opened to heat both engine and camper we got air in the camper circuit which meant it didn't work properly until it was bled which was a nightmare. We bought this self buid camper already built and used. I don't know why the air did that, but we never tried to heat the engine with it again although we maybe only ever had -15C or something. Or use easy start apart from blowing the tyres onto the rims.

A UK Eberspacher engineer (employed by them) told me the length of run round a camper meant the engine circuit wouldn't correctly pressurise so you should use a heat exchanger between circuits. His main work was high end boats so definitely didn't want to damage anything.

Although it may have been possible to have one heater for engine and camper we now just have one for the camper.

Spares though, that's another thing. To bring servicing up to date on that Mog camper we had to clean the D5WS quite a few times, then renew parts, and later for instance we had to swap the air fan. Parts cost a fortune. Opening up the burner compartment was secured with screws that were really soft and easily rounded. Not a part I would have brought as a spare. If you look into a few of the bigger spare parts costs you might think it not a stupid idea to carry a second whole unit just for spares?

Using gas for heating might use more than is sensible on an overland truck especially when you need different bottles in different countries. We did look at a FussMobil truck that a family had used around Canada with gas heating and they needed new bottles every two weeks. Maybe ok within one country, but how many standards are there just within the EU? Even one brand you can get in both France and Spain has different fittings in each.

 

[Joe917]

We use the AirHead. It is a better option for smaller bathrooms as it is more compact and can be mounted right up to the wall. The key with any of these toilets is not to let water into them, one of the reasons we went with a dry bath. After a year of full time living we are still very happy we have a dry bath.

We have our Natures head installed in a wet room. The shower water drains off the lid. The lip between the top and bottom of the unit is the place that could be a problem, I drilled drain holes in the corners to allow any water that gets in there to drain out. The attachment brackets are glued to the shower floor with 3M5200. After 5 years of full time living we are still very happy we have a wet bath.

 

[Joe917]

A Separett toilet has swappable containers to give more volume. Very good lids.
Will the shower drain and plumbing go straight down through the floor? Or will the tray be elevated to allow pipes to go underneath? How will you fix the toilet down to the wet shower tray (if that's what you meant?) If you have plumbing under the tray will you need to lift the tray up again?

Our Mog camper had an Eber D5WS correctly plumbed in to the engine circuit, but then a pair of Ts to a loop running all around the camper floor to calorifier and air blown heat exchanger. Every time the taps on those Ts were opened to heat both engine and camper we got air in the camper circuit which meant it didn't work properly until it was bled which was a nightmare. We bought this self buid camper already built and used. I don't know why the air did that, but we never tried to heat the engine with it again although we maybe only ever had -15C or something. Or use easy start apart from blowing the tyres onto the rims.

A UK Eberspacher engineer (employed by them) told me the length of run round a camper meant the engine circuit wouldn't correctly pressurise so you should use a heat exchanger between circuits. His main work was high end boats so definitely didn't want to damage anything.

Although it may have been possible to have one heater for engine and camper we now just have one for the camper.

Spares though, that's another thing. To bring servicing up to date on that Mog camper we had to clean the D5WS quite a few times, then renew parts, and later for instance we had to swap the air fan. Parts cost a fortune. Opening up the burner compartment was secured with screws that were really soft and easily rounded. Not a part I would have brought as a spare. If you look into a few of the bigger spare parts costs you might think it not a stupid idea to carry a second whole unit just for spares?

Using gas for heating might use more than is sensible on an overland truck especially when you need different bottles in different countries. We did look at a FussMobil truck that a family had used around Canada with gas heating and they needed new bottles every two weeks. Maybe ok within one country, but how many standards are there just within the EU? Even one brand you can get in both France and Spain has different fittings in each.

I would suggest your Mog's heating system was not designed or installed correctly, not unknown for self builds. Our system connected to the engine coolant has never needed bleeding and operates flawlessly. System designed by Webasto in Italy. The ThermoTopC has not needed cleaning in 5 years of use from sea level to over 5000 meters. It needs to be run at least monthly.
Using gas for heating is expensive and gas can be difficult to obtain. I would avoid propane if designing a new camper.

 

[grizzlyj]

I would suggest your Mog's heating system was not designed or installed correctly, not unknown for self builds. Our system connected to the engine coolant has never needed bleeding and operates flawlessly. System designed by Webasto in Italy. The ThermoTopC has not needed cleaning in 5 years of use from sea level to over 5000 meters. It needs to be run at least monthly.
Using gas for heating is expensive and gas can be difficult to obtain. I would avoid propane if designing a new camper.

Hi Joe
I quite agree the system in that Mog camper was not installed correctly even though the engine section was.
That doesn't affect the advice given to me since regarding my own current build by an Eberspacher engineer which I am personally following.
I don't dispute you have had zero issues with yours but that is not a route I would personally follow.
I am sure there is a manufacturers approved method for putting a variety of heaters into a variety of vehicles engine coolant systems but as soon as you start asking about looping that around your own one off camper area then I doubt you will find such predetermined designs for guaranteed performance?
Jason

 

[DiploStrat]

Talking poop ...

-- Had a Nature's head and loved it. (Had to manage the same, small issue that Joe917 mentioned.)

-- 917 had a cassette and we hated it - smell in use and dumping. Ugh.

Went with a C-Head as it is smaller and now love it. The biggest advantage is the round bucket - round agitator in a round space - no dry corners. And, best of all, it simply lifts out for dumping and fits easily through small doors on the bathroom and the camper itself. No need to cover or anything as it goes out upright.

N.B. My friend Jon Turner, of Nimbl, installed a C-Head in his demo unit. Rather than use a removable urine bucket, he simply plumbed the urine directly to the grey tank. (And, before you go "Ugh" think about where you dump grey water.)

Highly recommended. Both Natures Head and C-Head offer superb customer support.

HOME | C-Head Compact Composting Toilet

The C-Head compact composting toilet frees you from the dependence on pump out stations or black water tanks.

www.c-head.com

EDITED to add: We have never had a sink in the bath - never missed it. It IS worth a deep pan under a grid to stand on. You want the deep pan so that the shower drains no matter how level the truck.

 

[tanuki.himself]

Using gas for heating might use more than is sensible on an overland truck especially when you need different bottles in different countries. We did look at a FussMobil truck that a family had used around Canada with gas heating and they needed new bottles every two weeks. Maybe ok within one country, but how many standards are there just within the EU? Even one brand you can get in both France and Spain has different fittings in each.

getting off the original poster's questions, but this is as good a point to volunteer the information as any. You can buy composite gas cylinders in Europe that can be filled at auto gas stations and use brass screw on adapters to the different country-specific systems (which are still different to the pre-filled bottles). works out much cheaper than the swappable bottles, and you can see the level of liquid remaining so can plan when to refill more easily. I bought mine from Safefill in the UK, and i believe their offering was originally manufactured in Norway....

 

[grizzlyj]

snipped

EDITED to add: We have never had a sink in the bath - never missed it. It IS worth a deep pan under a grid to stand on. You want the deep pan so that the shower drains no matter how level the truck.

I put two drains in the shower tray on opposing corners

 

[grizzlyj]

getting off the original poster's questions, but this is as good a point to volunteer the information as any. You can buy composite gas cylinders in Europe that can be filled at auto gas stations and use brass screw on adapters to the different country-specific systems (which are still different to the pre-filled bottles). works out much cheaper than the swappable bottles, and you can see the level of liquid remaining so can plan when to refill more easily. I bought mine from Safefill in the UK, and i believe their offering was originally manufactured in Norway....

There's also Gaslow for refillable gas bottles.
That's fine if staying in the EU and where you can refill. My gas locker can take two 12 ish kg bottles, one of which may well end up being refillable the other local if required or just external storage in that half if not. But for cooking only, diesel heating.