1959 Series II 109" Project

[lake_bueller]

I look for some input and thoughts...

So I have the chance to pick up a RHD 109" for next to nothing. But that's mainly because there is next to nothing there to start with. The body panels are fairly straight but not perfect. The doors and top are in good condition. I'm not sure about the bulkhead yet because I haven't seen the truck in person. According to the current owner, it is sitting on a gavanized frame.

As for the rest of the truck, not much to say. It doesn't have axles, motor, transmission or transfer case. Basically, it's a clean slate for a new powertrain.

That being said...if I wanted to build a trail truck that can get there and back under it's own power, where would you begin?

Rover?
Isuzu diesel?
Toyota V6?
Chevy small block?
Other?

Secondly...has anybody installed coiled Disco axles into a Series truck w/o changing to a Defender frame? I've read the thread on converting the coil axles into leave springs. That could be an option.

I'm almost thinking that I could pull the entire drivetrain out of a Disco. But I'd prefer something more simple, like a diesel.

My goal would be to have something that is reliable yet has enough power to cruise on highway at 65mph.

 

[Yorker]

Have you seen this one?
https://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287

Some other stuff to read:
http://gunsandrovers.yuku.com/topic/5339

https://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8459

 

[Wander]

If it does really have a galvy frame that's worth about 2k alone.

It sounds like you are interested in a hybrid LR (no not the Prius kind:elkgrin so you might find some good info on Roversnorth forum; www.roversnorth.com/forums. There is a whole sub section for hybrids.

Another great place to find information-especially on alternate powering is www.expeditionlandrover.info.. There are a lot of options from small block V8's to diesels also check out the thread at the top of this section on the 109 build by mercedesrover. The great thing is that series rovers are very interchangable so you have a ton of options limited only by your wallet and patience.

Any pics?

 

[evilfij]

Trail truck, 2.25 stock petrol. I have never needed more power on the trail than my stock 1959 SII. On the highway, I would run a 200tdi connected to an LT77/short shaft R380 with ashcroft's conversion to the series T-case and either run 3.54 RRC/D90/DI diffs or spend more money on an ashcroft high ratio t-case.

 

[kd_walmsley]

Lake_Bueller,

What a great start for a fun project! Where are you located? I too picked up my 109 primarily for the new galvy chassis and don't regret it for a minute. After the chassis, I would be most concerned with bulkhead rot. There is considerable expense or effort involved in rebuilding it if rotten.

Important, frank questions to ask yourself:
How important is "keeping it Rover" to you?
Are you familiar with Series steering at 65mph and off road?
Can you afford Rover parts?
What is your off road driving style?
Do you need Dana 60's and 300m shafts?

If parts availability/price/durability were primary concerns then Toyota/Ford/GM would seem to be the way to go. Except for Toyota diesel motors which, in my limited experience, are expensive and not very common in the States. M1008's from U.S. government surplus are still available and will donate a GM 6.2, Dana 60 front and a 14 bolt. I think they even had 1350 shafts.

Assuming you have a 4 cyl. chassis and not a 6 cyl., a Disco or Defender 200tdi will bolt up to the left and right hand motor mounts. You will have to deal with the turbo location if using a Disco tdi. I don't have any experience with the 6 cyl. set up. On the 300tdi, a 200tdi left hand motor mount can be used with the 4 cyl. 109 chassis, but you will need to be creative with the right. Heads for the 200tdi are slowly becoming less available, even in the U.K. Parts for both are, IMHO, very expensive in the States. Alaska Mike was working on an American 2.5 petrol transplant into a Series and may have some more ideas for you.

I strongly recommend you read Teriann Wakeman's website from beginning to end. She is an invaluable resource for stateside Series owners. I also continue to learn quite a bit from LR4x4.com, a U.K. Rover site. Ditto with Gunsandrovers.

Disco/RRC/Defender axles have been put under Series vehicles in a wide variety of ways. If memory serves, the Disco/RRC/Defender front axle housing is 19cm wider swivel ball mount to mount than the Series. Some mount the axle SUA and McGyver their way around the tie rod problem. Going SOA solves the tie rod problem. Others weld on Defender spring mounts, radius arm, A-arm, and shock mounts to the Series chassis. These are all easily available, but defeat the benefit of a good galvy chassis unless you get it re-dipped. I have also seen radius arms used both front and rear, but it limits the articulation compared with an A-arm set up.

I currently have a 109 with a 2.5 petrol from a 110 and a Salisbury. I finally have my shorty R380 bell housing and my better half just approved the purchase of an uprated R380 from Dave Ashcroft. :wings: A Saginaw power steering conversion is my current project.

If you don't use the Series II wings and radiator panel, please let me know. I have some excellent condition Series III parts for trade. Depending where you are, I may be able to help you with smaller parts from the U.K.

Best of Luck,

Kevin

 

[Yorker]

Since you have a particularly blank slate to work with I don't see much advantage to staying Rover with what you put in it/under it. For you the sky is the limit depending on your resources and fabricating ability. Decide exactly what you want to get out of this truck and build it to suit your needs.

You aren't tied into a LR transfer case so you don't really need to limit yourself to passenger side offset axles, that can be a pretty big advantage IMHO.

 

[Antichrist]

Trail truck, 2.25 stock petrol.

x2
The 2.25 is nearly impossible to kill and will continue to get you there and back even when in incredibly worn condition. The sort of condition where you're thinking to yourself, "How in the heck is this thing still running?!"

 

[lake_bueller]

Some bad news....I got another picture from the owner and the frame isn't galvenized. I've asked to have some more detailed pictures of the frame. As it currently sits, the frame and body are not connected.

Secondly, he's now saying that its a '66 and not a '59. That could be good from a condition standpoint.

As was pointed out to me by a friend and Rover enthusiast, this is a HUGE undertaking. I'm not sure I'm completely up to the task. As least I'm not concidering this as a true Series restoration. This would be my trail/camping truck. My main goals would be reliability, functionality and capability.

 

[crusader]

What you've got there is a bunch of Land Rover 109 body panels, period. Building them into an operating 109 would be kind of like building a house around some vinyl siding you found. Sure, it could be done...

 

[lake_bueller]

What you've got there is a bunch of Land Rover 109 body panels, period. Building them into an operating 109 would be kind of like building a house around some vinyl siding you found. Sure, it could be done...

The whole idea started by a friend that built his truck using a Series IIa body and put it on a Land Cruiser FJ40 frame. He's running a Chevy small block with Toyota transmission, transfer and axles. He has an FJ60 with a rotted body that could possibly be the donor frame.

While it's a lot of work, it something that is usually hardest the first time:ylsmoke:

 

[Wander]

Well....it looks like the "trail truck" paint job is done.

I've got a bad feeling that if it's off the frame now the bulkhead is also shot so you've got body panels and glass. I guess if it's very near of not acutally free and you've got the time and patience (and budget) for the work it would be a neat project, a huge project but still neat.

How are you going to pull it off that pile? (forklift?)

 

[James86004]

As was pointed out to me by a friend and Rover enthusiast, this is a HUGE undertaking. I'm not sure I'm completely up to the task. As least I'm not concidering this as a true Series restoration. This would be my trail/camping truck. My main goals would be reliability, functionality and capability.

Based on the vibe I am getting from you, I think you are better off buying a complete vehicle. You will spend less money in the long run, it will be done quicker, and it will be more fun.

This is a project for someone who has a lot of free time and really wants to put a different engine into a Land Rover, and only into a Land Rover.

Mercedesrover's 109 is an exception to the rule (impressively so). Everyone else I know who has embarked on a major 109 project like you are considering has taken a minimum of 3 years to complete it. Many never finish, just like a previous owner of this vehicle never finished.

 

[Alaska Mike]

I'm going to second James' suggestion. I bought a parts rig, and have spent a good deal of my personal fortune transforming it into a pile of Rover parts. Slowly but surely I am buying new bits and pieces, as even some of the "good" stuff turned out to be less than I hoped for.

This is my opinion here, but the Rover body isn't the best platform for swapping onto another frame, as unlike the CJ/YJ/TJ/FJ... style tub it's basically a bunch of bolted together sections that relies heavily on the frame for structural integrity. To do it right requires a bunch of custom frame additions. Then there's the relatively small engine compartment, which makes placement even more critical. It certainly has been done, but it isn't easy and it doesn't always turn out as nicely as you envision.

A suggestion that was given to me before I bought mine. I promptly ignored it and dived in headfirst-
If you want a Series Rover, buy the best Rover you can afford. Don't try to build it into something it's not. You can certainly build it into a stronger, better-performing vehicle, but you better love the basic platform because it's going to be a long and laborious process. A horsepower upgrade will require a brake upgrade, drivertrain upgrade... it's like dominoes. Take a long breath before you start. This isn't a Jeep or Toyota.

 

[Michael Slade]

The previous two posts are the most solid, experienced, honest, well-thought-out and complete bit of Land Rover information you will EVER receive.

Follow their advice. PLEASE! :Wow1:

 

[lake_bueller]

Thanks for the input guys!!!

I've decided to step away from the ledge.

I'm still looking at something to replace my DI. While it's slowing becoming the truck I had envisioned from the start, it's also becoming increasingly difficult. The rust in certain areas have created a whole host of issues.

Currently looking at a '90 RRC that's in Wisconsin but came from Cali. It's very clean but needs a few items. I could swap out my current Disco axles for the 24 spline conversion. Most of my other Disco parts (tank skid, sliders, diff guards, etc) would also be transfered.

It's just a thought for now.....