2017 Ford Raptor prices
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thethePete
Explorer
Probably a decent idea, since the 3.5 EV they're using is completely new, and I have visions of issues with the new dual fuel system they're using, and GM is well known for their "robust" transmissions... So a joint effort 10-spd will be interesting. Hopefully it's the best of both worlds. Other than that, I have no doubts it's another knock out success.
As far as the 6.2 goes, I'm not personally a fan. There's nothing wrong with the motor, it's perfectly fine, and from what our Roush installer tells me, they respond quite well to power adders... I just don't like it. I find it doesn't perform well enough out of the box for what it is. That's fairly subjective though.
badm0t0rfinger
Raptor Apologist.
I feel as though getting the first iteration of new models is generally not the best idea. I'm not saying I don't trust the product, but often times kinks need to be worked out, usually minor. Additionally customer feedback is usually considered when working out little quibbles.
I keep trying to tell people that the 3.5 in the last gen of F150s is NOT the same that is going in the Raptor. I could be wrong, but I don't even think its the same block and it just happens to share the same displacement. I am fairly confident that it will be a good engine because it has been built from the ground up as a high performance engine. Its not the regular 3.5 EB with different turbos or a different tune. It was an engine that was designed for the application which gives me a lot more confidence than the alternatives. I think the 10 will be interesting and will make it more reasonable on the highway, but I'm worried that unless you are in manual mode that it could have an issue with switching between gears... but again there is manual mode.
I love the 6.2 I think its the second best engine they offered in the last gen F150, the first being the 3.5 EB. I was thinking about getting an FX4 with the 6.2 but surprisingly they were few and far between. Most were optioned with the 5.0 or the 3.5, while there were some FX2s with the 6.2 I had zero interest in getting a 2wd truck. I nearly "settled" on a 2014 Ruby Red crew cab 5.5 bed with the ecoboost, but I found the Raptor I ended up buying for a thousand dollars over invoice because it was a custom order that the customer walked out on, and had sat ever since (something like 8 months). Additionally I'm seeing MPG that is comparable to the 5.0 and has touched EB numbers on the highway. I'm still averaging 14.6 over the last 2 tanks.
thethePete
Explorer
The whole 3.5 engine got reworked. They're using the same one in everything, with different turbos, etc, but the block is the same from the Ford GT to the F150. Raptor included. That said, the only thing it has in common with the existing engine is name and displacement. New block architecture and new head design, it's mostly the new fueling system I'm concerned about issues with. The EB is massively over-engineered anyway. Look up the Ford Flex that was getting 600awhp out of a stock, over-tuned EB with stock turbos. It obviously popped eventually, but it speaks well to the strength and design. The primary failures in the current EB are occasionally the turbos, and with increasing frequency timing chain issues.
The 10-spd should be good. I know Dodge owners typically talk about how their 8-spd feels like it's constantly shifting, but Ford is really touting the skip-shift abilities of the trans, so hopefully it will just create more opportunites for the engine to be at optimum operating rpm. Time will tell.
Like I said, purely subjective; there's really nothing wrong with the motor at all. I'm impressed you're able to average even that high with a 6.2. Watch it plummet when you start hauling any amount of weight. I'm talking 4-6mpg towing a 24' travel trailer with an F250 6.2.
EB loses its mileage edge when loaded too because that's just how turbo motors work. Gotta have enough fuel for all the air those turbos are now stuffing in there.
The 10-spd should be good. I know Dodge owners typically talk about how their 8-spd feels like it's constantly shifting, but Ford is really touting the skip-shift abilities of the trans, so hopefully it will just create more opportunites for the engine to be at optimum operating rpm. Time will tell.
Like I said, purely subjective; there's really nothing wrong with the motor at all. I'm impressed you're able to average even that high with a 6.2. Watch it plummet when you start hauling any amount of weight. I'm talking 4-6mpg towing a 24' travel trailer with an F250 6.2.
EB loses its mileage edge when loaded too because that's just how turbo motors work. Gotta have enough fuel for all the air those turbos are now stuffing in there.
badm0t0rfinger
Raptor Apologist.
I've always heard that the block is overengineered but hampered by weak turbos that have people limping to the dealership with as few as 30K miles on it.
I don't really tow but when I do its either my friends boat or my one jetski and with the boat its 6 to 8 mpg and with the jetski its 9 to 11 mpg, but thankfully I'm only going like 3 miles so it doesn't really matter. The 6.2 in the F250 is largely the same engine as the Raptor but there are tweaks to it and I thnk the F250 version sacrifices hp for relability and more low end torque (though I don't think it has more torque overall).
Heaven forbid someone wants to go fast offroad. Sure it may not be the type of offroad that most of the ExPo forum members are doing, but if someone wants something let them have at it.
Trophycummins
Adventurer
Trophycummins
Adventurer
Making my vehicle more capable makes me childish how? You're on the wrong forum if making a vehicle more capable isn't for you.
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badm0t0rfinger
Raptor Apologist.
thethePete
Explorer
What's with all the children in the Raptor thread that are complaining about going fast offroad? That's what the truck was built for. You don't have to like it, but you also don't have to make petty comments about those who do. Grow up.
I also wouldn't necessarily say "weak" turbos, they're very, very small so they can spool quickly and give the bottom end grunt that the EBs are becoming known for. The new ones seem to be suffering less from turbo failures, but they are still a weak-point. I'm not sure it's because they're trying to over-drive a too-small turbo, or if it's just poor quality control. There definitely is some added complexity to a twin turbo engine like this.
Probably a different cam/intake on the Raptor vs the F250, but I've never bothered to look/investigate. I think my issue with the 6.2 is that is got a woeful output and crap mileage for what it is. I feel like its a throw back to the 70s when a 400ci V8 got a whopping 175hp. Especially with how much they wake up from a blower. I just feel like there are better solutions for the problem. Ford must feel similarly if they're replacing it in the Raptor. It'll be interesting to see how long it holds over in the SD. Maybe they'll replace it with the 3.5EB... I know the Transit 350s with the 3.5EB get the hell out of dodge.
I also wouldn't necessarily say "weak" turbos, they're very, very small so they can spool quickly and give the bottom end grunt that the EBs are becoming known for. The new ones seem to be suffering less from turbo failures, but they are still a weak-point. I'm not sure it's because they're trying to over-drive a too-small turbo, or if it's just poor quality control. There definitely is some added complexity to a twin turbo engine like this.
Probably a different cam/intake on the Raptor vs the F250, but I've never bothered to look/investigate. I think my issue with the 6.2 is that is got a woeful output and crap mileage for what it is. I feel like its a throw back to the 70s when a 400ci V8 got a whopping 175hp. Especially with how much they wake up from a blower. I just feel like there are better solutions for the problem. Ford must feel similarly if they're replacing it in the Raptor. It'll be interesting to see how long it holds over in the SD. Maybe they'll replace it with the 3.5EB... I know the Transit 350s with the 3.5EB get the hell out of dodge.
badm0t0rfinger
Raptor Apologist.
People think when one is compensating when they have or like a certain type of vehicle. Sure sometimes its true, but the childishness easily eclipses any compensating.
I don't mean they are inherently weak, or terribly designed but they are a weakpoint and its amplified by the fact that its a selling point. For many its their first introduction into turbocharging [outside of diesel engines], for those to even have the perception of being weak or a problem child is bad on a couple different levels. I don't think they could have rolled out the EB much better, but especially in the trucks they could have pushed a bit more for long term durability.
I'd ask you to check out the 6.2 in the F150 (Raptor or otherwise) and I promise you it will be leaps and bounds better than the F250 counterpart. I agree that it gives me a vibe of a big lazy V8, but its well suited in the Raptor. It doesn't rev to 8 or 9 thousand like some of the prerunners they are emulating, but it doesn't matter because its just that good.
I think they got rid of it because it is admittedly kind of an old style engine, but they also want zero ambiguity with regards to their plan to embrace smaller, forced induction engines. Having something like that as your "halo" engine when you are pushing something else entirely to everyone else may send a bad message.
I don't mean they are inherently weak, or terribly designed but they are a weakpoint and its amplified by the fact that its a selling point. For many its their first introduction into turbocharging [outside of diesel engines], for those to even have the perception of being weak or a problem child is bad on a couple different levels. I don't think they could have rolled out the EB much better, but especially in the trucks they could have pushed a bit more for long term durability.
I'd ask you to check out the 6.2 in the F150 (Raptor or otherwise) and I promise you it will be leaps and bounds better than the F250 counterpart. I agree that it gives me a vibe of a big lazy V8, but its well suited in the Raptor. It doesn't rev to 8 or 9 thousand like some of the prerunners they are emulating, but it doesn't matter because its just that good.
I think they got rid of it because it is admittedly kind of an old style engine, but they also want zero ambiguity with regards to their plan to embrace smaller, forced induction engines. Having something like that as your "halo" engine when you are pushing something else entirely to everyone else may send a bad message.
thethePete
Explorer
I've driven a few Raptors, albeit just when they're in for service, and they certainly feel better than the f250, I just think it's an old-mindset motor that was never as good as it should've been. I mean, they were marketing it as "big block power" when released. Plus, 16 spark plugs is just silly. It feels like a big block though. Slow to Rev but it will pull a house.
You nailed it about EB ownership too. I feel like that ignorance of turbocharged motors was part of the "issues" they were having with condensation in the intercooler on the earlier ones. Telling me it's "too efficient" sounds like a weak excuse for poor driving habits. But you can't tell the guy he's "driving it wrong". It's definitely been a huge success in shifting peoples perception of a small engine in a truck though.
I also agree, they're using the EB in the Raptor for the same reason the GT got it. To show their commitment to small displacement turbo engines. And I'm totally ok with it.
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You nailed it about EB ownership too. I feel like that ignorance of turbocharged motors was part of the "issues" they were having with condensation in the intercooler on the earlier ones. Telling me it's "too efficient" sounds like a weak excuse for poor driving habits. But you can't tell the guy he's "driving it wrong". It's definitely been a huge success in shifting peoples perception of a small engine in a truck though.
I also agree, they're using the EB in the Raptor for the same reason the GT got it. To show their commitment to small displacement turbo engines. And I'm totally ok with it.
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2025 deleted member
Well-known member
What aircraft are you flying? Usually I hear guys mention a particular aircraft, as you know it is a specialization.