2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[DieselRanger]

Wait til we have active suspension with magnetorheological dampers PLUS air suspension. I cannot freakin' wait.

If you've ever driven an RRS with Adaptive Dynamics, it's seriously good on the road.

The 2019+ Disco comes with it, and that was the goal of the Nurburgring testing with the Defender.

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[onemanarmy]

If you can't see the hilarity of JLR wasting time and money by testing the new 'Defender' on the Nurburgring, then I've got nothing for you. Tuning for that racetrack will no doubt leave it suffering in the longevity, reliability, rugged chops long run.

I bet the RRS, the RR, the Disco, the Disco Sport, the Velor are all great on the road. If that's what you want, get one of those.

They could have focused more on the ruggedness and simplicity of the Defender and still be fine on the road....maybe not top speed racetrack optimized, but perfectly fine for traveling backwoods 2 track and still run 80 on the highway with the AC on.

 

[onemanarmy]

Land Rover cannot, will not, and doesn't want to take over the Wrangler's spot. If they tried, they'd go bankrupt. And that's not what they ever built for the consumer market in North America anyway.

Toyota maybe could, but they'd have to bring back the FJ. And holy ******** did people complain when the old-new FJ came out! "It's too big." "it doesn't look enough like the original." "You can't work on it in the field." "no aftermarket parts." "Too expensive for an FJ / Wrangler is cheaper." "No removable top." And now? They're appreciating. In ten years you'll never see them off-road because they'll be too precious to risk doing anything but take them out on a Saturday afternoon after a nice wax job, unless you find one with a salvage title and rebuild it like people do with old Rovers and CJs. But Toyota won't do that either because there's no money in it.


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That POS FJ Cruiser was a huge swing and miss. Just like LR, they looked back at their history and pedigree and completely missed the mark. Even then they sold as many as they wanted.

It was an OK vehicle, but did not resemble or deserve the FJ moniker.

No money in what? A proper retro vehicle built to modern standards? Since when?

Other automakers do it with success every day.

 

[DieselRanger]

If you can't see the hilarity of JLR wasting time and money by testing the new 'Defender' on the Nurburgring, then I've got nothing for you. Tuning for that racetrack will no doubt leave it suffering in the longevity, reliability, rugged chops long run.

I bet the RRS, the RR, the Disco, the Disco Sport, the Velor are all great on the road. If that's what you want, get one of those.

They could have focused more on the ruggedness and simplicity of the Defender and still be fine on the road....maybe not top speed racetrack optimized, but perfectly fine for traveling backwoods 2 track and still run 80 on the highway with the AC on.

If you can't see the necessity of having a vehicle that can be good on the road and off road, then I've got nothing for you.

My Discovery goes everywhere I want to, and all I've done so far is put AT tires on it. I do the same trails that lifted Wranglers with 35's do and I have no problems. It's not a canyon carver by any means, but it's an absolute dream to drive long distances and it can actually pass other vehicles without stress on the highway, or even climbing Monarch Pass.

Why *wouldn't* you want something that can do that???

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[DieselRanger]

That POS FJ Cruiser was a huge swing and miss. Just like LR, they looked back at their history and pedigree and completely missed the mark. Even then they sold as many as they wanted.

It was an OK vehicle, but did not resemble or deserve the FJ moniker.

No money in what? A proper retro vehicle built to modern standards? Since when?

Other automakers do it with success every day.

Ok, it's obvious you're just trolling now.

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[onemanarmy]

Not trolling at all.
You're making my point....JLR ALREADY makes a large portfolio of Nurburgring tested, luxurious and complex IFS/IRS SUVs, that can do OK offroad with some decent AT tires. The Series/Defender was never that. So why make more of the same and slap a Defender badge on it? I DO want something that is good on road and off, but it doesn't need computer controlled suspension and 10 way traction control and digital AC controls and screens to do that.

Where did I say the Defender had to suck on the road? You're not reading what I'm typing. If it sucked on the road, they'd never sell. But engineering it to be good on a racetrack will inevitably make it suffer in other 'Defender' ways.

Retro/old school/legacy vehicles sell well. Mustang, Charger, Wrangler, Ford is bringing back the Bronco.

And LED headlights/taillights.....they may last a longer, maybe. But they cost more to engineer into the vehicle, are integrated into the body work, cost so much more to replace, are often a dealer only item, can't be replaced with a screwdriver and $4, are wired into the central ECU so they can be programmed to slash in funky ways. Why add that cost and complexity? Heaven forbid you crinkle that rear body work and break those marker and taillights. Or bust up those 'angry eye' headlights.

I'll take my Hella H4 round headlights.

And it still looks like a 1999 concept car. Dated already.

 

[REDROVER]

ok Haha
Look my friend , let’s say State of IDAHO, how many mazarati suvs have they sold ? Vs Toyota 4Runner or even a new ford ranger rugged off road truck?

1 to 3000 ratio,
Do you need more facts ?
your jaguar and Land Rover is in the brink of chapter 11 and you telling us there is a market for luxury suv?
By the way What part of luxury Land Rover is superb off road ?
Mall parking off-road you mean ? Because I haven’t seen not one single new big body Range Rover play off road.

 

[TexasTJ]

Fingers crossed that them make a more striped down version of the 90 when it comes out. My biggest disappointment right now is that the 90 will not have a true convertible. Land Rover would have been smart to try to make one to compete with the Wrangler and the new Bronco when it come out. That's where they missed. I convetable 90 with a nice looking fastback roll cage would have been awesome and would have sold well against the Wrangler even s i higher price point.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

With respect, Canada only made the switch recently.... and that was from the Iltis.

I thought is was 2004. 15 years ago....

 

[Blaise]

How many army trucks at the moment have air springs? General vehicle installs are better now because the compressors duty cycle has been correctly engineered after the fact? Why have something that could leak in the first place if you want reliability first, comfort second?

Why is complicated better?

Why is complicated better? Because comfort and versatility matters.

In the military, only performance matters. You don't have your wife/girlfriend next to you for 18 hours. You aren't worried about how nice it feels to blast down a dirt road - only thing that matters is performance and longevity. You don't care about being able to ride at off road or street heights.

I live in the real world. Sound deadening, ride quality, and vibration/harshness is a thing and its an important thing. I have a 2 hour drive from Seattle to get to any of the fun areas to camp/wheel/etc. We own two Subarus yet drive the Rover every time despite it's fuel-hungry nature because it's nice to be comfortable.

I've owned Jeeps, I've owned Japanese trucks, Japanese luxury cars, Japanese motorcycles and European motorcycles. I love them all and for different reasons, but for extended trips, yes, I prefer the higher complexity system that requires a little more PM/care/attention but delivers vastly higher performance.

I used to ride Japanese motorbikes. I rode my buddy's Ducati for a week despite being turned off due to the maintenance requirements and cost. After a week, I got back on my Suzuki and literally said the words 'What the F is this garbage" and immediately bought a KTM. Years later I tried to go back to a Suzuki, sold it after 200 miles, and now I'm on a Ducati which I put 6k miles on in 4 months.

If I was in the Congo, yes, I'd have a Land Cruiser. Or WR250R. But I'm in America. I'll take the Land Rover, Ducati... and someday the Porsche.

 

[dreadlocks]

I'm pretty sure the Mustang is about to be the ONLY car Ford sells.. and that must mean there's no market for small, efficient passenger cars right? GM Chapter 11'd a decade ago, everyone misses them today them since they vanished overnight right? If you want to drive a 25yro vehicle, then go buy one and restore it.. stop insisting manufacturers make antiques.. someone mentioned the Charger being popular? That ugly 4 door family sedan that shares almost nothing with its namesake is not really the best argument eh?

Air Suspension is currently in commercial applications, like pretty much every passenger train and bus.. and they started working on that like 80 years ago, now they present very few issues.. Every big rig on the road has a "complex" air system on it that is used for braking, suspension, and even the drivers seat cushion..

A Six Figure vehicle, is not competing w/a Wrangler.. there is no overlap in that market, zero.. other than the fact that you hop off this thread and into a wrangler thread and there's just as much hate spewed that they are too complex, heavy, expensive and lost sight of their roots too.. guess haters just gona hate ...themselves for being broke af

 

[mpinco]

So I have too many vehicles. Rescued a 59 Austin Healey 3000 roadster and it is literally a beast. Fifties technology, tractor gear 1st, no engine rear main seal by design so it ALWAYS marks its spot and side-curtains. Top? Well that is stowed behind the seat as a after-thought. Fun? Hell ya! Also have a 73 TR6, rescued from the Santa Fe desert/climate. Roll-up windows! Has a rear main seal! Best car ever in snow and slick roads prior to AWD offerings. IH Scouts that are now gone and replaced with a 98 Disco I. Air conditioning! Real heater! Also a LR4. 5.0L V8 is all you need to know.

There might be a small cottage industry for old-school but no major manufacturer is going to offer those products.

People need to embrace technology.

The new Defender is really a high-tech luxury Defender. Did you really expect anything else? I know, some will say yes. Well it isn't going to happen. The best we can hope for is a diesel option down the road but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Defender be an early adopter of fuel cells as BEV's have zero chance of serving long range. Technology doesn't scare me. Being a Beta tester on my dime does. I may consider a luxury Defender but down the road.

 

[grizzlyj]

Snipped

Why is complicated better? Because comfort and versatility matters.
I live in the real world. Sound deadening, ride quality, and vibration/harshness is a thing and its an important thing. I have a 2 hour drive from Seattle to get to any of the fun areas to camp/wheel/etc.

A whole two hours? Goodness me.

But "Sound deadening, ride quality, and vibration/harshness is a thing and its an important thing" does not require electronic anything.


Snipped and my bold

Every big rig on the road has a "complex" air system on it that is used for braking, suspension, and even the drivers seat cushion..

.............too complex, heavy, expensive

that you pay for. Why? Why can't it be super cool, modern, light, efficient in performance as well as manufacture, futuristic etc etc, but still simple? This Landie is light compared to many, but then it is still obviously stuffed to the gills with bloatware so could be much lighter on it's feet and the planet.

People need to embrace technology.

Why does that mean complexity though?

Big suspension travel yes please, pushed by air bags no thank you. Big wading depth yes please, lifted at the touch of a button that will limit the articulation and so traction while wading no thank you. Decent dealer back up yes please, permanently connected via 4/5G for instant upgrades but also means they are probably keeping tabs on how you're driving it er what? Diff locks yes, but traction control instead so your pads will wear out 1000 times quicker in silty mud? Touching your brakes off road used to be almost a cardinal sin, but now ecu controlled brake modulation is better than diff locks? A camera if you spec the jump seat because it'll block the rear view mirror? You still have the two side mirrors so ******? Their own roof tent? Their own brand of paint protection paint? No double cab pick up because the 110 is pretty much the same thing? How do you chuck two hay bales inside your pristine vehicle through the not big enough for that door?

I'm not hating it, I like it but it's a Disco with a different body. I like it better and would more likely buy this than anything else they produce at the moment. But I won't buy it because it's an expensive pile of electronic stuff that does not belong off road. On road and near a dealer lovely smashing. But then it's pointless apart from the image, which again is fine if that's what you want.

 

[calicamper]

ok Haha
Look my friend , let’s say State of IDAHO, how many mazarati suvs have they sold ? Vs Toyota 4Runner or even a new ford ranger rugged off road truck?

1 to 3000 ratio,
Do you need more facts ?
your jaguar and Land Rover is in the brink of chapter 11 and you telling us there is a market for luxury suv?
By the way What part of luxury Land Rover is superb off road ?
Mall parking off-road you mean ? Because I haven’t seen not one single new big body Range Rover play off road.

I spotted my first Lamborgini SUV two weeks ago. It was doing the wine tasting circuit in Carmel Valley CA. Thats kinda my expectation of all these LUX brand SUVs. Which is why they all get 22’s on them.

Granted the wife and I were in the SLK350 but at least we were in the correct vehicle for a weekend exploring the CA coast lol

 

[mpinco]

I did characterize it as a "Luxury Defender" for a reason. There is likely too much technology. One area that is of significant concern to me is the reliance on SOTA (Software Over The Air) updates. That is fine except for those areas that don't have cell coverage. For Colorado and the Intermountain West that is spotty. I tell my tourist visitors to take their cell phones and toss them in the rear seat and learn to read a paper map. So if LR is relying on SOTA for addressing significant issues that might disable a vehicle, forget it. In addition you run the risk of bricking your Defender. Need to see many more years and much more details on SOTA before I even consider that a viable 'feature'. Theoretically is sounds good on paper and is likely viable in a urban area.