2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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mpinco

Expedition Leader
JLR has a long way to go on powertrains.

2020 Land Rover Range Rover Sport PHEV Review: Driving Issues Impossible to Overlook

The verdict: A sumptuous cabin can’t make up for finicky touchscreen controls and an awful hybrid driving experience. .......

....The idea is sound: Combine a 296-horsepower, turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine with a 141-hp electric motor housed in the eight-speed automatic transmission, all powered by a 13.1-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack. ......

....It all sounds great on paper. The problem is, none of it works very well. ....

.....The big problem is the smoothness of operation of these systems. The gas engine kicks on sometimes but not others, and it’s far from seamless when it does. The four-cylinder Ingenium engine shakes and vibrates like a diesel instead of a turbocharged gasoline engine. Running idle at a stoplight, it shakes the whole SUV. Acceleration feels variable, meaning the powertrain behaves differently depending on what mode the Range Rover decides it needs to be in. Pushing the accelerator the same way twice does not guarantee the same acceleration: Sometimes it provides a serious boost, sometimes it just crawls away from stoplights. And sometimes the gas engine kicks in despite EV-only mode being selected, even if you attempt to accelerate gently to try and keep it in electric. .....

.....The braking system doesn’t behave any better. The brakes have an artificial, unpredictable feel, with regenerative action meant to put energy back into the batteries. Again, though, braking feel and performance varies depending on whether the engine is running or not, which doesn’t make much sense to me. Coming to a slow-speed halt always ended with an abrupt lurch as the brakes suddenly grabbed. ......

.....Despite being made almost entirely of aluminum, the SUV weighs 5,430 pounds — significantly more than the next lightest version of the Range Rover Sport, the 5,100-pound V-8 model. Batteries and electric drive systems add a lot of weight to a vehicle, and the biggest problem hybrids face is that they basically have two full powertrains to lug around. ........"


Here we see a 'production' vehicle that has undergone the same testing regime as the Defender. How did this get out the door? Which is why I don't consider first or even second year models.
 
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givemethewillys

Jonathan Chouinard
The closest I've been to one is driving past the dealership and seeing all the shiny new gladiators sitting out front.

I have to admit that the all-white rubicon looks reeeeeally nice ( I hate the lower trim level's black plastic fenders). I think the 4:1 transfer case would actually be too low on east coast fire roads, and I'd give up break over angle to get a 6ft bed.

But back to the defender, I've been watching grizzlyNbear on youtube, and I freakin love the look of that truck. I doubt it's going to happen, but LR needs to follow Jeep's formula of retro but modern if they want to have a winner. I am not remotely interested in a rebadged discovery.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
JLR has a long way to go on powertrains.

2020 Land Rover Range Rover Sport PHEV Review: Driving Issues Impossible to Overlook

The verdict: A sumptuous cabin can’t make up for finicky touchscreen controls and an awful hybrid driving experience. .......

....The idea is sound: Combine a 296-horsepower, turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine with a 141-hp electric motor housed in the eight-speed automatic transmission, all powered by a 13.1-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack. ......

....It all sounds great on paper. The problem is, none of it works very well. ....

.....The big problem is the smoothness of operation of these systems. The gas engine kicks on sometimes but not others, and it’s far from seamless when it does. The four-cylinder Ingenium engine shakes and vibrates like a diesel instead of a turbocharged gasoline engine. Running idle at a stoplight, it shakes the whole SUV. Acceleration feels variable, meaning the powertrain behaves differently depending on what mode the Range Rover decides it needs to be in. Pushing the accelerator the same way twice does not guarantee the same acceleration: Sometimes it provides a serious boost, sometimes it just crawls away from stoplights. And sometimes the gas engine kicks in despite EV-only mode being selected, even if you attempt to accelerate gently to try and keep it in electric. .....

.....The braking system doesn’t behave any better. The brakes have an artificial, unpredictable feel, with regenerative action meant to put energy back into the batteries. Again, though, braking feel and performance varies depending on whether the engine is running or not, which doesn’t make much sense to me. Coming to a slow-speed halt always ended with an abrupt lurch as the brakes suddenly grabbed. ......

.....Despite being made almost entirely of aluminum, the SUV weighs 5,430 pounds — significantly more than the next lightest version of the Range Rover Sport, the 5,100-pound V-8 model. Batteries and electric drive systems add a lot of weight to a vehicle, and the biggest problem hybrids face is that they basically have two full powertrains to lug around. ........"


Here we see a 'production' vehicle that has undergone the same testing regime as the Defender. How did this get out the door? Which is why I don't consider first or even second year models.

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blackangie

Well-known member
@givemethewillys
Have u seen the gladiator up close ? It’s amazing.

Defender better be under 25 grand to give gladiator a run.
Because the rubicon gladiator is selling as soon as it enters the dealer at 50k plus
You need 40s to overcome that rear overhang and rampover, not possible in Australia due to tyre size increase safety restrictions. Also it won't sell well out of America due to emissions and safety.

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blackangie

Well-known member
The closest I've been to one is driving past the dealership and seeing all the shiny new gladiators sitting out front.

I have to admit that the all-white rubicon looks reeeeeally nice ( I hate the lower trim level's black plastic fenders). I think the 4:1 transfer case would actually be too low on east coast fire roads, and I'd give up break over angle to get a 6ft bed.

But back to the defender, I've been watching grizzlyNbear on youtube, and I freakin love the look of that truck. I doubt it's going to happen, but LR needs to follow Jeep's formula of retro but modern if they want to have a winner. I am not remotely interested in a rebadged discovery.
I watched ep 75 were they lost the front end , is the rest worth watching? Or any fav eps?

Maybe the new defender will be better suited with air suspension to be able to hold that kind of weight, if they do a 130 ute/pickup down the track?

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mpinco

Expedition Leader

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That wasn't much of a actual driving performance review. More of a marketing piece.

The basic issue is 5400 lbs powered by a 2.0-liter engine whose torque curve is not up to the task. The electric boost isn't always on-line so the end result is - "it just crawls away from stoplights."

Might be a good urban vehicle but you can keep it for off-road and towing profiles.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Nice short range demo of the PHEV vehicle. And what is the range of the PHEV?

"Land Rover says the SUV has about 31 miles of electric-only range"

Like I previously said I would not want this vehicle for towing across the Western US where uphill drives can be hundreds of miles. I'm wondering if you could even maintain a legal speed with a 2.0 liter engine moving 10,000 lbs (car+trailer)
 

Blaise

Well-known member
The question is whether a 300hp engine can keep a 10k lb combined weight moving?

20 years ago 300hp was the most powerful V8 you could get in a super Duty Ford. If you wanted more, you'd have to go for a 6.8 V10. The hills are all still the same size, and unlike the big v8s the 2.0 wouldn't be affected by altitude.

I recently dug into the long distance tow-testing done by manufacturers when providing a tow rating and it is *FAR* more aggressive than I thought. If it's rated for a certain weight per the SAE J2807... I wouldn't worry at all! :cool:

 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
For towing it's about displacement and torque, not peak horsepower. The electric motors are a positive for torque. The 2.0l displacement is a negative for torque. It is why the test drive noted "sometimes it just crawls away from stoplights " when the vehicle was required to rely on the 2.0l engine only. On a long drive, once the batteries are depleted, you are left with the 2.0l engine.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
The question is whether a 300hp engine can keep a 10k lb combined weight moving?

20 years ago 300hp was the most powerful V8 you could get in a super Duty Ford. If you wanted more, you'd have to go for a 6.8 V10. The hills are all still the same size, and unlike the big v8s the 2.0 wouldn't be affected by altitude.

I recently dug into the long distance tow-testing done by manufacturers when providing a tow rating and it is *FAR* more aggressive than I thought. If it's rated for a certain weight per the SAE J2807... I wouldn't worry at all! :cool:


Good post, was just doing some math on normal scenerios.

Also remember the new defender will come in multiple 4cyl 2L power ranges and multiple 3L 6cyl power ranges+ phev or mild hybrid.

I believe the current D5 has the 2L 4cyl with no electric assistance and still has 3.5t or 7700 pound towing. Apparently the 3l is much more suited to those who tow though.

New defender will be around 4400pounds or 2toone based on the discoverys weight with more stuff.

So even towing 2 tonnes which no one does offroad,( video showed 1 tonne in a typical setup)

You are looking at 8800 pounds (4t) for work or or 6600 pounds (3t) for play.

Add .750t or 1600 pounds payload.

For long distance overloading most people will have the following weight scenarios for the 110 model (no towing)

6600+1600pounds = 8200 pounds or 3.7toones

If they want to tow a camper trailer add 2200 pounds (1t)and drop half the payload off the car.(towing) see picture some camper trailers are 1/4 of this weight.

6600+800+ 2200 = 9600 pounds or 4.3tonnes.

43557a571a7e98e6af7a90ee861a9a6c.jpg


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REDROVER

Explorer
@mpinco few more articles like that from cars.com and Land Rover will nail the last nail of its coffin in USA.

Pack your junk up and go, honestly I have not seen one single new Land Rover discovery in Northern California, not 1.
in LA I have seen 4 so far and it’s been out how long ??
 
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