2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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mpinco

Expedition Leader
The Rubicon tops out well north of $50K with the bits and bobs most want on it, and the Gladiator touches $60K, more with tax and title in many places. They're lifestyle vehicles, and that's fine. Interestingly, in 2013, FCA said the average household income of a Wrangler Rubicon buyer was $110,000. You're not making $110,000 fresh out of college, on average.

Land Rover has always prided itself as an aspirational brand, never mind its roots in post-WWII Britain. You start out with a used Jeep, but you always want that Defender. You start out in a Honda, but damn if you wouldn't give your left nut for a Porsche. Turns out men buy a Wrangler today because it's a midlife crisis car - the average buyer is 48 years old. I think if a Defender was available even for a little bit more, a significant percentage of those in their prime earnings years would opt for it instead of a Wrangler, especially if it can do everything a Wrangler can right off the lot, especially if there is more luxury for that money. There's a lot more money in the economy than there was in the mid- to late-1990s.

Hope you are right. JLR needs the volume ( there is little volume with G-Wagons ) and profitability or their financials will find them with new owners and a new 'direction' that is a reset to 'aspirational'. Recent automotive articles note high cost of SUV's is beginning to be a detriment as the next generation 2 income families can't afford those price points. The feel of debt deflation is intruding into the conversation. The talk at auto shows is consolidation. Maybe enough will migrate to LR's but by today's model volumes that is the crossover segment which for LR is $45K.

Defender as competition to the Rubicon needs to be $50K, not $70K+. If they really wanted to make a statement the entry point of the Defender would be $45K.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Defender's intro in late 2019 with sales in 2020 won't rescue JLR in time for the debt issue. In fact the capital spend to ramp up Defender is going to further stress their financials.

From when they announced the $4B quarterly loss - TTAC - ".......It needs to manifest $1 billion in 14 months to replace maturing bonds — not an easy feat, as it also needs some dough left over for continued investments into expensive EV development programs. ........."
 

blackangie

Well-known member
Buckle in,its guna be a big day on new defender news!

New images of 2020 Land Rover Defender as it completes 745,000 miles of testing

Land Rover Defender: new pictures of 2019 model released

"Having racked up 745,000 miles of testing already, Land Rover says it has no plans to wind down the development programme just yet.

Defenders will next be deployed to Kenya, where they’ll assist the Tusk Trust’s operations at the Borana Conservancy nature reserve, towing heavy loads, wading through rivers and carrying supplies across unforgiving terrain in a series of real-world trials at the 14,000-hectare reserve."
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blackangie

Well-known member
still under semi camo as seen on roof and bonnet but wow that looks hot!

Bonnet bulge, insane angles, rwc, sloping roof, bulging guards, blacked out lights, full glass rear.

Pretty happy guys, was worried it was guna look weird after all those random remders where getting around.

Interesting angle choice for photo
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TexasTJ

Climbing Nerd
Woof looks like a ford flex with a lift. Put the camouflage back on!
 

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blackangie

Well-known member
Woof looks like a ford flex with a lift. Put the camouflage back on!
Im loving the gunmetal colour!

Gota remember ford would have used/stolen a ton of IP when they sold LR to Tata, so its 100% no coincidence.

Ford is basically doing exactly what landwind in China did with the Evoque.

People will still buy their stuff but it looks cheap and nasty because it is cheap and nasty

New defender doesnt look cheap or nasty in my opinion I was worried with all the renders getting around looking pretty rubbish.

Well done JLR!

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TexasTJ

Climbing Nerd
Im loving the gunmetal colour!

Gota remember ford would have used/stolen a ton of IP when they sold LR to Tata, so its 100% no coincidence.

Ford is basically doing exactly what landwind in China did with the Evoque.

People will still buy their stuff but it looks cheap and nasty because it is cheap and nasty

New defender look cheap or nasty in my opinion I was worried with all the renders getting around looking pretty rubbish.

Well done JLR!

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Possibly true. But each layer Land Rover pulls off the more and more I am thinking that new Jeep Gladiator looks really nice.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
I was told the 3 liter Ingenium diesel 6 would be available.
Good question, Moab video guys say they heard 2L diesel.. I would say a variety of engines will be available based on comments by JLR on record.

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DieselRanger

Well-known member
I was told the 3 liter Ingenium diesel 6 would be available.
Not available anywhere so far. In the UK and Europe, the Ford/Pugeot variable-vane Td6 engine has been replaced with the twin-turbo SDV6 making about 300hp (still Ford developed, I believe), which based on the butt dyno measuring my 254 hp D5 would be about perfect, at least for the Disco. Td6 still the only diesel available in the US, and to be honest I do like it - 440lb-ft of torque is plenty for crawling up a 15%+ grade over basketball sized rocks at 12,000 feet, and it's rock-solid reliable. But more is always better - here's hoping they offer a new inline 6 Ingenium turbodiesel making around 300hp / 500lb-ft in the range-topper 110. That could he my next Landy.

The Td6 engine is now in the Ford F150 with a tow rating over 10,000 lb. Not sure how they got past the emissions rating on towing, which is the only thing holding the Disco Td6 back, but there were a few modifications.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
Not available anywhere so far. In the UK and Europe, the Ford/Pugeot variable-vane Td6 engine has been replaced with the twin-turbo SDV6 making about 300hp (still Ford developed, I believe), which based on the butt dyno measuring my 254 hp D5 would be about perfect, at least for the Disco. Td6 still the only diesel available in the US, and to be honest I do like it - 440lb-ft of torque is plenty for crawling up a 15%+ grade over basketball sized rocks at 12,000 feet, and it's rock-solid reliable. But more is always better - here's hoping they offer a new inline 6 Ingenium turbodiesel making around 300hp / 500lb-ft in the range-topper 110. That could he my next Landy.

The Td6 engine is now in the Ford F150 with a tow rating over 10,000 lb. Not sure how they got past the emissions rating on towing, which is the only thing holding the Disco Td6 back, but there were a few modifications.

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JackW

Explorer
And from the SAE...


and from an older article:
This could be the last year to score a Jaguar with the carmaker's 3.0-liter supercharged V6. Autocar reports that Jaguar deep-sixed the the XE S and XF S in the UK due to poor sales and difficulty coping with European emissions regulation changes taking place this year. The mag expects the XJ and F-Pace to lose the V6, too, but suspects the F-Type might retain the engine. It's possible, however, the bent-six with up to 380 horsepower and 339 pound-feet of torque might finally be retiring for a reason reported on for at least three years: To make way for a 3.0-liter inline-six from the Ingenium line of motors.

In 2015, Motor Trend noted the supercharged V6 would die at the end of 2016, succeeded by a "more powerful Ingenium inline-six," likely to be turbocharged. One year later, Car laid out a new family of Ingenium inline-sixes in gasoline and diesel versions. There would be three gas options with 300, 400, and 500 horsepower, plus three diesels with 275, 335, and 400 hp and herds of torque. In Car's report, the engines were meant to be here in 2017. This could be the year it finally happens.

A Jaguar spokesman in the UK told Autocar that an uptake of less than 2 percent on the S models, "Coupled with impending emissions regulation changes, it makes sense to remove these variants from sale in the UK." When Jalopnik asked Jaguar U.S. about availability here — we aren't a party to the imminent European emissions changes — the carmaker would only say that the engine remains available in the current XE, XF, XJ, F-Type and F-Pace.

No matter the timeline, Jaguar would want a six-cylinder to fill the gap from the 296-hp Ingenium 2.0-liter four-cylinder to the supercharged 5.0-liter V8 that starts at 470 hp. Jaguar expanded an area of its Wolverhampton, UK, engine factory to build the scalable Ingenium line. An inline-six would not only reconnect with Jaguar's past — and the firm's long-hooded cars remain ready to swallow them — the straight-six is lighter, has fewer moving parts, and emits less pollution than the supercharged V6. It is also compatible with front-, rear- and all-wheel drive, longitudinal and transverse mounting, and hybrid applications, so expect to see the motor migrate to the Range Rover, Range Rover Sport, and Land Rover Discovery.

Looking to either end of the Ingenium spectrum, Motor Trend reported that a 1.5-liter, three-cylinder gasoline Ingenium engine could one day serve the Jaguar XE and F-Pace, as well as the Evoque and Discovery Sport. When it comes to the V8, an Autocar piece from 2016 said Jaguar might let its 5.0-liter V8 die, and turn to BMW or Mercedes-Benz for a big engine.
 
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