2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[80sailor]

Good news for the US

Jaguar Land Rover’s Attempt Preserve its Classic Cars Erases the Problems that Came With Them

In opening the first Jaguar Land Rover Classic facility in the US, the first of its kind, JLR is cleverly taking steps to preserve its heritage with the cars already in the wild. By expanding the restoration market by offering electrification and restoration options, it also takes steps not only...

www.torquenews.com

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I thought this had been delayed/postponed indefinitely?

 

[TexasTJ]

I thought this had been delayed/postponed indefinitely?

I thought this was called Rovers North and East Coast Rover ?

 

[68camaro]

You mean defender source where 50% of users are NAS owners are worried about their values and can't accept positive opinions about the new defender.
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On a side note.....several years ago aftermarket companies came out with brand new steel bodies of 60’s muscle cars. At the time people were worried about their values of original cars. The jury has spoken and the new bodies did nothing to value of existing cars. As a matter of fact early muscle cars sale prices have been booming.

There is nothing like an original, they have style, personality and nuances that just cannot be duplicated. I don’t see the new defender cannibalizing early models, but you may see early Defender owners keeping their classic and getting new one as everyday driver....lots of Camaro and Mustang owners did this.

 

[Al Blue4.6l]

On a side note.....several years ago aftermarket companies came out with brand new steel bodies of 60’s muscle cars. At the time people were worried about their values of original cars. The jury has spoken and the new bodies did nothing to value of existing cars. As a matter of fact early muscle cars sale prices have been booming.

There is nothing like an original, they have style, personality and nuances that just cannot be duplicated. I don’t see the new defender cannibalizing early models, but you may see early Defender owners keeping their classic and getting new one as everyday driver....lots of Camaro and Mustang owners did this.

yeah, there is precisely 0 chance of this negatively affecting the market for original Defenders. And no one is "worried" about that.

 

[rlynch356]

Totally correct no "classic" defender owner if worried about values going down, more the opposite really, will they get too expensive to drive. Anyway the collective opinion on the defender forums is one of JLR missed the boat on new defender... as a new Discover it would have been great, but defender, not so much, for a number of reasons.

I'm sure some will get them - i know of 2 at least out of the 100's of members who are getting them but if that's a representative sample then it's pretty small.

 

[catmann]

Agreed, the value of the NAS Defender may have been compromised slightly if LR did the reboot thing like Mercedes and the G-Wagon, but with the Discovery-ish new Defender coming, I think the marketplace will treat the two generations as distictly different vehicles.

 

[webecinya]

Ha I’m not worried about any value, my truck wasn’t designed by this guy.

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[mpinco]

One aspect that is eating away at the attractiveness of newer vehicles is complexity. While reliability of the newer models has improved, they are also much more complex and in reality not field repairable. From that perspective the Defender and D1 are much more attractive for the off-road / long term owner crowd. Simply from that perspective values of Defender/D1's will be maintained. On the flipside I would think depreciation for newer vehicles will accelerate as the quantity and cost of computer based subsystems becomes an increased factor and batteries become more prevalent. I suspect the new Defender may fall into that category. The LR4/new Discovery would also fall under that higher depreciation category.

 

[michaels]

One aspect that is eating away at the attractiveness of newer vehicles is complexity. While reliability of the newer models has improved, they are also much more complex and in reality not field repairable. From that perspective the Defender and D1 are much more attractive for the off-road / long term owner crowd. Simply from that perspective values of Defender/D1's will be maintained. On the flipside I would think depreciation for newer vehicles will accelerate as the quantity and cost of computer based subsystems becomes an increased factor and batteries become more prevalent. I suspect the new Defender may fall into that category. The LR4/new Discovery would also fall under that higher depreciation category.

Let’s hope so for the second hand market. My 04 discovery was $45k new. I was the second owner and picked it up in dec 2007 for $19.9k and it was garaged, serviced at LR only and absolutely immaculate. I’d love to be able to do the same again with an LR4 or the new defender, even if it is a bit lackluster. I can’t fool myself and pretend I’ll be able to afford a one new anytime soon, so used it’ll have to be. Until then my 92 RRC and seeing what the aftermarket produces will have to suffice for me.

Also, field repairability only really is possible if you have the parts to fix it, unless you just mean less to go wrong. If a critical part breaks on an old truck and you don’t have that particular spare, you’re just as out of luck. The same could be said for any car really.


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[Lemagus]

My trouble-free, 90k LR4 is a ‘complicated’ NA model...? Good story/Bad story, my point was generalizing the brand on any single user experience is of limited value.

Comparing your MUCH simpler LR4 or the wildly simpler equipped LRs offered overseas to the current American Market offerings means nothing. Current American Market LRs are significantly more apt to end up in the shop than other "overland" vehicles. If you think otherwise, you are walking around with rose colored glasses on. And if you think that the only Defenders available won't be just as luxury equipped as any other American Market LR, good luck with that.

 

[blackangie]

Blackangie
how should I believe in your facts when 90% of Toyota Land Cruisers ( say 100 series) are on the road with 3 times higher mileage and selling price compared to same year Range Rover?
Market doesn’t lie, JD poweres does.
To argue that Land Rover May have a chance to be as capable 4x4 is something that can be entertained but to say Land Rover is as reliable as Toyota competition is delusional.

North American land rovers are guaranteed to be one of the most unreliable vehicles in USA.
You may convince me otherwise but there are 350 million others You have to convince.

@150.000 miles Toyota needs oil change,
At 150.000 miles 80% of North American Land Rover vehicles are being sold for 800 bucks or they have been dismantled already for parts.

I love your enthusiasm ( or paid advertising) towards new defender, but come on man.

JD power lies, wow, thats a new one
Everyones got opinions, I prefer to stick to facts bud.
Without wanting to go off topic too much, heres some more facts for you, there is more to the world than America, in other markets were Toyota actually sell huge amounts of diesels they are having huge dramas

More diesel drama for Toyota HiLux - motoring.com.au

Toyota has confirmed the dusting issue that drops the 2.8-litre turbo-diesel engine in the HiLux, Prado and Fortuner into limp-home mode remains unfixed. That piles more bad news on for Australia’s biggest selling vehicle brand, which is battling a class action lawsuit over the diesel...

www.motoring.com.au

Kyle Kinchela bought a new Toyota, then she faced a $2,000 fine for its pollution

Problems with diesel particulate filters in top-selling Toyota cars have exposed Australia's "lagging" vehicle emissions standards, public health and environmental advocates say.

mobile.abc.net.au

Im guessing your response will be

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[blackangie]

I thought this had been delayed/postponed indefinitely?

Article is under 2 weeks old so I'm guessing its happening, i do remember people posting that it wasn't happening, but never saw anything official about it not happening online.

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[blackangie]

On a side note.....several years ago aftermarket companies came out with brand new steel bodies of 60’s muscle cars. At the time people were worried about their values of original cars. The jury has spoken and the new bodies did nothing to value of existing cars. As a matter of fact early muscle cars sale prices have been booming.

There is nothing like an original, they have style, personality and nuances that just cannot be duplicated. I don’t see the new defender cannibalizing early models, but you may see early Defender owners keeping their classic and getting new one as everyday driver....lots of Camaro and Mustang owners did this.

Agreed, I also don't see NAS prices dropping much, look at classic rangies with all those naughty new range rovers around to decrease their values.
New defender will be a great thing for the classics

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[rlynch356]

No JD powers is accurate

I’ve posted this before..this is the US version of the survey..

 

[blackangie]

yeah, there is precisely 0 chance of this negatively affecting the market for original Defenders. And no one is "worried" about that.

You may not be, but there are threads on it and peoples extremely "defen sive"attitude towards the new defender, completly writing it off whilst it was still under full camo, specifically on some majority NAS based forums confirms it. Unjustified i agree, but it is a think from what i have seen. However having said that if the new defender is as good as the people that have actually seen it are saying, it could put a dent in demand for a while, its possible to be fair to them.

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