2021 Overland Explorer Vehicles (OEV) CAMP-HBE pop-up flatbed pickup camper (renamed the "Hudson Bay" for 2023 model year)

Ninelitetrip

Well-known member
 

Chadx

♫ Off road, again. Just can't wait to get...
The bowen website has some good images and it's a great idea for those that want to use a slide-in layout camper that sits lower than it would on a flatbed. Great that there are more and more options and choices out there!
In our case, the primary reasons that we'd consider changing to a HBE has to do with the layout of the camper itself.

For the winter, I'd actually prefer to have keep a pickup bed rather than have a flatbed. Camper is off the pickup for about 5 - 6 months out of the year (winter) and a bed would be much more useful in the winter than a flatbed. On a stock bed, I currently use a tri-fold bed cover to secure and protect my bulky wintertime recreational equipment (ice fishing gear/sled, skies, snowshows and any other long and/or snowy/wet equipment we don't want in the cab). That is part of our decision because losing the enclosed bed storage in the wintertime, when camper is off for the season, it a big factor. There are work arounds like putting side panels on a flatbed or using skyboxes or nets/tarps, but they are not as usable as a stock pickup with bed cover or a topper. That being the case, for our use case, the side entry door camper layout is much more convenient. We nearly always have a boat or enclosed trailer hooked up or a receiver rack with MTB or dirtbikes. We have a swing away hitch for the MTB, but dirtbikes are too heavy. Plus, hoping the side door allows less dust intrusion than the rear doors. Extensive gravel road travel and the vortex behind the vehicle lets in a fair bit of dust even with the door weather seals.

The HBE dinette is the biggest selling point for us. Very stable and large table surface and very spacious seating. The CAMP-X layout works for us, but we find the CAMP-HBE dinette more useable and comfortable. And we find the HBE living space a bit more comfortable for two people moving around compared to the CAMP-X galley/corridor layout. The indoor shower and toilet closet are also selling points for us. Time will tell if the HBE migrates to a more or less desirable camper for our needs.

Though the trail driving branch clearance would still be an issue if the CAMP-HBE continues to increase in height, as would the even less aerodynamic height, we would have a solution to still fit it in our shop. When we built our shop, which has 16' walls, we didn't have a use for a 14' RV door, so we installed a 9' door and opener for a small fraction of the cost of the 14' commercial-grade setup. We did, however, have the 14' height door header built and then a smaller and lower second header at 9'. That way, if we or future owners ever wanted the 14' door, it's a matter of cutting away the 9' header, siding/sheathing/studs and installing a 14' door and capable opener. That is the ace up my sleeve, but is an expense I'll have to take into consideration if we change to a pickup/camper combo that won't sneak through the current 9' garage door like our current CAMP-X/Fullsize pickup setup. It may come down to much more precise measurements because the current CAMP-HBE with an HD pickup setup is close and may not fit either as my estimates were roughly done. There is a very slim chance an even taller HBE will fit, but will just have to evaluate everything in a couple years because lots can change between now and then (OEV camper design, other available campers, our needs, etc.)
 

Ninelitetrip

Well-known member
I do prefer the side entry setup. Gives a larger area to move around in to my mind. The isle the CAMP X or even CAMP FX feels confining. The space in the AterraXL felt huge after the FX. An option for an 8.5 or 9.0 HBE would be nice. Having the the option for the retrofit on the garage certainly helps.
 

Chadx

♫ Off road, again. Just can't wait to get...
We published our review of our HBE after a couple months of use as well as added a few pictures or our interior on our blog: https://www.sunnydaysoff.com/camp-hbe-how-good-is-it

@victorc With your 3" lift and 37" tires on your Ram/flatbed/CAMP-HBE setup, can you take two measurements? One from flat/firm ground to the top of the closed popup front corner of the camper and another from flat/firm ground to the closed popup rear corner? And then an approximate height of whichever is taller; solar and vents? Very curious as to the overall driving height and needed overhead clearance of your rig because I suspect that your 3" lift plus your 3" taller tires (so 1.5" added to overall ride height) is about 4.5" and will be very similar to a stock HD Ram with stock tires and the new/taller CAMP-HBE. Other brand HD will likely ride different heights, of course, but this just gives a starting point. Thanks.
 
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Crux

Member
The bowen website has some good images and it's a great idea for those that want to use a slide-in layout camper that sits lower than it would on a flatbed. Great that there are more and more options and choices out there!
In our case, the primary reasons that we'd consider changing to a HBE has to do with the layout of the camper itself.

For the winter, I'd actually prefer to have keep a pickup bed rather than have a flatbed. Camper is off the pickup for about 5 - 6 months out of the year (winter) and a bed would be much more useful in the winter than a flatbed. On a stock bed, I currently use a tri-fold bed cover to secure and protect my bulky wintertime recreational equipment (ice fishing gear/sled, skies, snowshows and any other long and/or snowy/wet equipment we don't want in the cab). That is part of our decision because losing the enclosed bed storage in the wintertime, when camper is off for the season, it a big factor. There are work arounds like putting side panels on a flatbed or using skyboxes or nets/tarps, but they are not as usable as a stock pickup with bed cover or a topper. That being the case, for our use case, the side entry door camper layout is much more convenient. We nearly always have a boat or enclosed trailer hooked up or a receiver rack with MTB or dirtbikes. We have a swing away hitch for the MTB, but dirtbikes are too heavy. Plus, hoping the side door allows less dust intrusion than the rear doors. Extensive gravel road travel and the vortex behind the vehicle lets in a fair bit of dust even with the door weather seals.

The HBE dinette is the biggest selling point for us. Very stable and large table surface and very spacious seating. The CAMP-X layout works for us, but we find the CAMP-HBE dinette more useable and comfortable. And we find the HBE living space a bit more comfortable for two people moving around compared to the CAMP-X galley/corridor layout. The indoor shower and toilet closet are also selling points for us. Time will tell if the HBE migrates to a more or less desirable camper for our needs.

Though the trail driving branch clearance would still be an issue if the CAMP-HBE continues to increase in height, as would the even less aerodynamic height, we would have a solution to still fit it in our shop. When we built our shop, which has 16' walls, we didn't have a use for a 14' RV door, so we installed a 9' door and opener for a small fraction of the cost of the 14' commercial-grade setup. We did, however, have the 14' height door header built and then a smaller and lower second header at 9'. That way, if we or future owners ever wanted the 14' door, it's a matter of cutting away the 9' header, siding/sheathing/studs and installing a 14' door and capable opener. That is the ace up my sleeve, but is an expense I'll have to take into consideration if we change to a pickup/camper combo that won't sneak through the current 9' garage door like our current CAMP-X/Fullsize pickup setup. It may come down to much more precise measurements because the current CAMP-HBE with an HD pickup setup is close and may not fit either as my estimates were roughly done. There is a very slim chance an even taller HBE will fit, but will just have to evaluate everything in a couple years because lots can change between now and then (OEV camper design, other available campers, our needs, etc.)

If you were to get the HBE how would you carry mountain bikes?
An extended hitch extension with bike rack to avoid the rear HBE kick out?
Or mount vertical bike racks to the rear molle racks?
 

Chadx

♫ Off road, again. Just can't wait to get...
Crux,
Like you say, one would need, at a minimun an extension to allow the handlebars to clear the rear CAMP-HBE kick out if using a horizontal bike rack. We love our 1up rack and I'd look for, or have custom made, an extension that has a 1:1 rise:extension ratio to keep departure angle high.

I've also seen some vertical racks that look like they work well, that support the bikes by cradling the front wheel. I'm less a fan of the verticle racks that require the front wheel be removed because I don't want to mess with that, but that type seems like it would work well for long distance travelers.

If sticking with a tray-type horizontal rack like our 1up, it would be a matter of determining how high is high enough to keep clearance and reduce grit and gravel kick up vs too high to make loading hard or get seat and bars above roof line. Would also consider some type of stabilizers attached to rear molle, though the hitch suppoerting the weight.

All that would be measured, calculated, tested before having something built. Our current Wilco swing hitch has pushes things back and up. Not enough for a CAMP-HBE, but it would be a good starting point.
 

Crux

Member
I’ve been researching this 1up vertical mount that some of the sprinter van crowd use. It looks like the attachment points are adjustable, but not sure if there is enough vertical space on the rear HBE molle rack to securely mount the rack and support the bike…but maybe…

 

mk216v

Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Regarding the Owl Sherpa on the Sprinter, I can help answer questions on it, I know them intimately. Are you asking about the door hinge brackets-to-Sherpa plate fasteners? Or are you asking about the 1Up trays-to-the Sherpa attachment points?
There Vertical mount kit (separate from the 1Up tray or Sherpa plate) is simply some fasteners and cable; https://owlvans.com/collections/accessories/products/1up-vertical-bike-kit-2

chadx.

Yeah the increased height changes things up a bit. Interestingly the ATO AterraXL is also increasing in height.

Trying to by a used pre 2023 HBE in a few years not the best plan probably. Reach out to Arnold, I don’t think it was 5 inches, maybe 3-4?

Also take a look at pictures on Insta of the “Stormtrooper“ Bowen / Hallmark setup. It belongs to eyemgh here on the forum. A combination Bowen slide in tray bed with longer CAMP-X would be a nice option.

I was able to look at the Bowen trays and was impressed. And what they’ve managed to do with a lowered bed height for slide in campers is pretty neat.

Bowen sure has it going on with their trays and storage. (That's one thing HPI couldn't do for me; drop my flatbed deck height...although the deck couldn't go too much lower and still allow the cabover to clear the truck cab as I only have about 3.5" of clearance now, so maybe the Hallmark has a much taller deck-cabover height than ~41.5"?).
 
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Chadx

♫ Off road, again. Just can't wait to get...
1up makes a rack designed for vertical use as do several other manufacturers. If I was going vertical, I'd use one of those. But if any of the vertical racks had the bikes stick up above the top of the camper, that would also be a No Go for us since, as mentioned, we often contend with overhead branches on the trails we drive.

I was aware of the Owl kit to use the 1up horizontal type carrier in a vertical position. Neat solution, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable offroading (heavy jarring) with that setup so will be looking to position and use our existing 1up horizontally. There are also times we have 50lb ebikes on the rack, too, and not just 30lb mountain bikes, so even more stress on that single arm if they were mounted vertically. I have the superduty 1up and have even used it with a Surron electric dirtbike (weighs 80lbs with 30lb battery removed) but typically use a dirtbike receiver hitch for that. The arms on the 1up were not designed to support weight; only stabilize. The tray is to support the weight. While the Owl cable adds some support, I'm still not comfortable with all the weight on a single arm and that ratchet mechanism. I believe 1up make a statement that they should not be used that way, but I don't see that in their FAQ or anywhere. Likely it would be fine for road use and light trail work, and maybe even hard offroad use, but that one time it is not fine just isn't worth it to me. Ha.

Since we'll be swapping out between two different receiver hitches (bike and dirtbike), and because we'll also use the 1up rack on other vehicles besides the camper, I'll go with a receiver extension setup and use our current 1up on that rather than taking apart our 1up rack (or having to buy more 1up tracks) and mounting them to the camper's molle rack.

But the various vertical mounts might work well for some users. Would be interesting to see bikes mounted vertically on the back of a CAMP-HBE or similar camper to see how far they stick up above the roofline or how far they hang down. FYI, the 1up tray (not counting extended arms) is about 55". For scale, the closed CAMP-HBE is about 58" tall so with the rear kick out, I'm guessing the molle racks are about 36" tall by the looks of it, but someone with one would have to chime in. Typical MTB is about 77" long so if one doesn't want a vertical mounted MTB to stick out above the top of the camper (camper is 58" tall), the bike would hang down about 19" below the bottom of the camper (top of the flatbed).
 
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Chadx

♫ Off road, again. Just can't wait to get...
Here is a quick representation of 77" long bike hanging vertical behind the camper just to give an idea how low a vertically hanging bike would be. I think a custom receiver extension, angled up at 45degrees (second image), will allow at least the same, but likely better, departure angle than vertically hanging bikes/rack. Also, this image gives a bit more perspective on the available mounting surface area for a vertical rack.
HBE-bw-side-closed 77 inch vertical bike.jpg


HBE-bw-side-closed 42 inch bike v2.jpg
 
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Crux

Member
Interesting… I’m not sure how the dimensions of the Hawk flatbed compare, but I was thinking it would look something more like this :
 

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Chadx

♫ Off road, again. Just can't wait to get...
Yep, looks about right. Flatbed Hawk is 60" tall closed including the vent so about the same 58" not counting vent as CAMP-HBE. I dug around and found a couple side profiles of the CAMP-HBE on a pickup and so went back and adjusted my second drawing above to have a more realistic hitch height, which is lower than my first attempt. All this is speculation on my part, of course, and I'd get serious on measurements, calculations and decision on rack type only upon confirmation we were making the change to a CAMP-HBE. Still lots of time between now and then and even the imminent to CAMP-HBE height will impact such calculations.

The kick out and shape of the FWC flatbed and CAMP-HBE is a bit different which throws off my eye as I compare the two, but if one figures in lowering the bike rack and bikes at least a foot from where they are in that video, so they are not sticking up above the closed roofline while driving, and the bikes would be positioned similar to my first drawing attempt above. For our trails, we could never have anything sticking above the roofline of a camper. And the thought of bikes mounted way out on the outer edge of the camper, with handlebars sticking out past the camper edges like that, made me cringe a little. Ha. But all that is because of the tight tree-line trails we drive and so something that I immediately notice and consider, but those that drive in wide open terrain never give another thought. The branch marks on the top and sides of our camper are evidence that bikes mounted like in that video would be damaged on the first mountain trail trip around us. But on wide open terrain, that would be a slick and reasonable way to mount.
 
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pawleyk

Running from Monday..
As far as bike mounts off of a flatbed camper, I think the vertical mount to the Molle is probably the best/easiest way to go. Unless you've got a long bed truck with shortbed camper and can do a saddle-style tunnel box. I built this one for my own use, but we've been talking to Bowen about getting them to make a few more for us.
 

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Ninelitetrip

Well-known member
Two changes coming for 2023. The batteries and the cassette toilet have swapped locations, with the cassette toilet on a slide that pulls out into the entryway.

Second, is that a hardwall Hudson Bay will soon be introduced for 2023. This is definitely interesting. I had asked Arnold about a slimmed down Base Camp, more XL / XLT trim interior setup, or a longer 8.5 or 9-foot HBE, no to both.


 

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