2022 RAM 5500 Composite "Super Camper"

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Curious on the logic of dual solar controllers and dual DCDC chargers vs just single larger units?

I see this is somewhat common, but I havent had anyone be able to explain why.

Feel free to speak to me like i am 10 years old!

Seems like a lot of added complexity, moving parts, and wiring is added with this method.

I am not doubting you for a second, just curious the advantages.

Also, good call on the access door for the electronics, i REALLY wish i would of done this also, and will likely be re-doing my stuff to add one later.

 

[rruff]

Curious on the logic of dual solar controllers and dual DCDC chargers vs just single larger units?

With controllers I can see it to maximize charging when you have panels with different specs, or panels that have different views of the sun. I thought about putting portables on a different controller than the ones mounted to the camper, but determined that I wouldn't gain enough to make that worth the trouble. No idea why you'd want dual DC-DC though.

 

[andy_b]

Curious on the logic of dual solar controllers and dual DCDC chargers vs just single larger units?

I see this is somewhat common, but I havent had anyone be able to explain why.

Feel free to speak to me like i am 10 years old!

Seems like a lot of added complexity, moving parts, and wiring is added with this method.

I am not doubting you for a second, just curious the advantages.

Also, good call on the access door for the electronics, i REALLY wish i would of done this also, and will likely be re-doing my stuff to add one later.

Dual MPPTs, as @rruff mentioned, can allow you to wire your panels in series (or series-parallel arrays) and increase your voltage which is more efficient and allow smaller gauge cable runs to carry the same current. Honestly, that alone is probably worth the hassle for a large array. If one were to wire their solar panels into a series-parallel arrangement, two controllers would also be able to better manage differential shading or a broken panel. Also, two smaller MPPTs tend to be less expensive than a single giant one. Not by a ton but that can be a consideration.

Victron DC-DC chargers can be wired in parallel to increase their output amperage. Stock they output 20amps, I think.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Dual MPPTs, as @rruff mentioned, can allow you to wire your panels in series (or series-parallel arrays) and increase your voltage which is more efficient and allow smaller gauge cable runs to carry the same current. Honestly, that alone is probably worth the hassle for a large array. If one were to wire their solar panels into a series-parallel arrangement, two controllers would also be able to better manage differential shading or a broken panel. Also, two smaller MPPTs tend to be less expensive than a single giant one. Not by a ton but that can be a consideration.

Not sure i am following. I have (2) 375 Watts panel wired in series going into a single controller. They connect on the roof, and a single + and single - are fed through the roof and into the controller using the standard 10awg works freaking perfectly, minimal intrusion into roof, minimal chance of leakage.

Are you saying folks that do this are running all related cables from panels through roof and connecting them inside the camper? That would make for a much bigger hole in the roof. No? What am i missing here?

I honestly didnt even think of the shade thing wiring half the panels to one controller, and half to another in case of shade. Makes perfect sense! Thanks! That's definitely valid!

Victron DC-DC chargers can be wired in parallel to increase their output amperage. Stock they output 20amps, I think.

That particular one yes, but Victron makes them up to 100a and Sterling makes them up to 120a

 

[andy_b]

Not sure i am following. I have (2) 375 Watts panel wired in series going into a single controller. They connect on the roof, and a single + and single - are fed through the roof and into the controller using the standard 10awg works freaking perfectly, minimal intrusion into roof, minimal chance of leakage.

Are you saying folks that do this are running all related cables from panels through roof and connecting them inside the camper? That would make for a much bigger hole in the roof. No? What am i missing here?

I honestly didnt even think of the shade thing wiring half the panels to one controller, and half to another in case of shade. Makes perfect sense! Thanks! That's definitely valid!



That particular one yes, but Victron makes them up to 100a and Sterling makes them up to 120a

IDK if you're missing anything, but there are many ways to skin this cat.

Most people with a lot of wiring run a combiner box like this: https://amsolar.com/rv-combiner-box/20-roof. That is basically a roof mounted bus bar that takes all the cabling and merges it into two conductors. Same size hole or smaller than most setups and this specific AM solar one also acts as a housing.

I assume that your panels are 12V? That would make their short circuit current around 30 something amps. I think that 10 gauge wiring may not have the ampacity for that, depending on what you've established as your allowable voltage drop and distance: http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/newsletter/images/DC_wire_selection_chartlg.jpg

A RV solar system can have a max output wattage of X based on the available size of the roof. I have 8 100w panels. Their open circuit voltage is 21V and their short circuit current is 6.2A. If I wired it all in series, it would be approx 168V at 6.2A. The problem is, an MPPT rated to that input voltage is over $800 (Victron 250|85).

Wiring four panels in series, their open circuit voltage would be 84v at 6.2A. A single Victron 100|30 could manage that and is around $225. To complete my system, I'd need two at around $550. In theory, this two controller setup would be slightly more efficient because I'm overpaneling the MPPTs and the two separate arrays would manage shade better. Of course, because of packaging issues, I did not follow this advice and also got a single MPPT. It ultimately has more capacity but also is more expensive. Since I have AC, I'm also not too concerned about shading - in fact, I want to avoid it lol.

I don't think there is an "always right" answer on a mobile application in variable climates. AM Solar in Oregon sells great products and provides great advice and they want to wire every system in parallel. Other people insist on series all the time. I figured I'd split the difference. Also, I haven't set my system up yet so who knows if I understand any of this correctly.

 

[StenchRV]

Electrical Bay:

The solar question is being explained well in detail. Thank you Andy_b, and others.
Our rig will be used months at a time and setting in one place for possibly weeks at a time, just FYI.

I choose to wire 2 600 watt strings, 3 200 watt panels each. Remember I have 1200 watts of solar. Purchasing the larger, correct short circuit voltage one, would have been the one Andy mentioned.
Expensive but NOT just money based choice. YES I might have one more 1/2" hole in my roof, sealed, covered and sealed again.

A RV solar system can have a max output wattage of X based on the available size of the roof. I have 8 100w panels. Their open circuit voltage is 21V and their short circuit current is 6.2A. If I wired it all in series, it would be approx 168V at 6.2A. The problem is, an MPPT rated to that input voltage is over $800 (Victron 250|85).

Wiring both strings in series and being aware of possible shading, as mentioned earlier in the thread, is another reason I chose to set my system up this way. The dual Victron Smart MPPT controllers communicate and take the best advantage of the available incoming power. There are some large objects on my roof that can create a large shadow I wired 3 panels on the drivers, and 3 panels on the passenger side as 3 panel strings, now if I can just remember that when I park...LOL.

The "it is more complex" theory to does not hold water with me in the case of the new integrated systems. A bit more wire and a few more connectors, sure, but I promise to still have fellow camper beer money left over .

The Dual DC-DC converter discussion.

I wanted an all Victron set up. I have experience with it and with the new features and system integration makes life easy. YES, 12-12-30's act as one. Victron duty rates their equipment, larger amp outputs are common from the 12-12-30, depending on temperature.

YES, there are larger output units by Victron. Buck boost's are a LOT more expensive. I decided 2 smaller units 60 AMPS total, BOTH with their OWN alternator output/battery connection running 6 gauge wire and separate fuses was the way I wanted to go.

Like Andy said, there are "many ways to skin this cat".

None of these choice were made without input from some very well known companies.
Is one more right than the other? You decide

CHEERS!!

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Awesome explanation @StenchRV and @andy_b

Thanks!

The more i think about this, the more it makes sense!

This is what these build threads are all about!

Thanks for documenting

 

[andy_b]

Awesome explanation @StenchRV and @andy_b

Thanks!

The more i think about this, the more it makes sense!

This is what these build threads are all about!

Thanks for documenting

Your build has already given me a ton of ideas and saved me a lot of hassle!

 

[StenchRV]

The details :-0 We have been BUSY this week.

I sent off a camera and an idea to a 3D printer guru, motorhome friend of mine, and he did a FANTASTIC job. My wife and I spent an evening getting the camera dialed in and made a few changes to the original design and what my friend sent back was PERFECT!


OLD one test fit and angle change, from the factory grill, to ALMOST eliminate the SMALL blindspot. The uprights on the Buckstop bumper get in the way just a little. We moved the camera forward on the middle bumper tube and it made a TON of difference and did not mess with the image blending. Not fond of the cable routing but I can work that out later. Rear camera next!




New one's fresh off the printer.

How they work.



Did I mention POWER! Started the process. 4 down 4 to go!



I like it when you order something and it shows up and you feel like you REALLY got what you paid for. These were not that expensive! WINNER!



Wiring is fun! Do not mid the mess I will clean it up later. YES every wire is labeled every 2 feet!




Even had time to do the upper cabinets this week.



Repurposed the widow cut outs. Glued them with Koropop to 1/4" furniture grade plywood and SWEET! Ok I may be biased Made perfect cabinet bottoms and fit exactly in the 8020 groove.



Will try and get the circuit breaker cabinet made this week and plumbing start. LOTS to do!

CHEERS!!

 

[Victorian]

I know that you did some testing but I’m not sure I would trust the aluminum framing to be enough of a glue surface for the upper cabinets. It’s all about preventing point loads. You are probably ok for lightweight stuff up there but heavy items like canned food etc I would certainly reconsider.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

The details :-0 We have been BUSY this week.

I sent off a camera and an idea to a 3D printer guru, motorhome friend of mine, and he did a FANTASTIC job. My wife and I spent an evening getting the camera dialed in and made a few changes to the original design and what my friend sent back was PERFECT!


OLD one test fit and angle change, from the factory grill, to ALMOST eliminate the SMALL blindspot. The uprights on the Buckstop bumper get in the way just a little. We moved the camera forward on the middle bumper tube and it made a TON of difference and did not mess with the image blending. Not fond of the cable routing but I can work that out later. Rear camera next!

View attachment 739946


New one's fresh off the printer. View attachment 739947

How they work.

View attachment 739948

Did I mention POWER! Started the process. 4 down 4 to go!

View attachment 739949

I like it when you order something and it shows up and you feel like you REALLY got what you paid for. These were not that expensive! WINNER!

View attachment 739950

Wiring is fun! Do not mid the mess I will clean it up later. YES every wire is labeled every 2 feet!

View attachment 739951


Even had time to do the upper cabinets this week.
View attachment 739953

View attachment 739954
Repurposed the widow cut outs. Glued them with Koropop to 1/4" furniture grade plywood and SWEET! Ok I may be biased Made perfect cabinet bottoms and fit exactly in the 8020 groove.

View attachment 739955

Will try and get the circuit breaker cabinet made this week and plumbing start. LOTS to do!

CHEERS!!

Looks amazing man! Congrats

 

[StenchRV]

I know that you did some testing but I’m not sure I would trust the aluminum framing to be enough of a glue surface for the upper cabinets. It’s all about preventing point loads. You are probably ok for lightweight stuff up there but heavy items like canned food etc I would certainly reconsider.

We are thinking alike. VERY valid point. THANKS!

Those were pictures of the initial installation. It is about long term and no load points. As planned we have added multiple 5" X 4" structural 1/16" thick angle to the side walls and the roof mounts inside the cabinets. We have even given thought to adding a roof cross members at both front uprights for additional glue area.

All of our canned goods will be stored in a lower drawers and a slide out pantry. Our dishes are composite or silicone, even our wine glasses . The upper storage will be mostly dishes and dry goods. We do not like weight up high

The pictured cabinets are 12" X 12" and 5' long and glued on every inch, MM, that touches the composite panel. The upper cabinets will also be screwed to the side walls that will be installed at a later time.

CHEERS!!

 

[StenchRV]

Looks amazing man! Congrats

THANKS MAN! Keeping busy!

CHEERS!!

 

[Sixinarow]

Looking great! I attended the Mtn West Overland Expo and was able to talk to the Liquid Spring guys that were there with a local Denver installer, Elevation Off Grid. A friend had a new F550 built by them with the Liquid Spring setup.

I can make air in the middle of no where, I can not make hydraulic fluid.

Supposedly, Carl, from Liquid Spring, one of the sales/expo guys, came from Kelderman. Of course, he's going to to try to sell the newest product for his current employer, so it is biased. He said he was in Alaska when a customer's hose failed. He was able to go to the local NAPA and have a braided hose made since they use standard hydraulic hose and couplings. He said, however, that the fluid is proprietary and you have to get it from Liquid Spring. They are talking about selling it through auto parts stores.

My latest truck idea is using custom air ride and 4-link suspension. We'll see!

 

[StenchRV]

Looking great! I attended the Mtn West Overland Expo and was able to talk to the Liquid Spring guys that were there with a local Denver installer, Elevation Off Grid. A friend had a new F550 built by them with the Liquid Spring setup.



Supposedly, Carl, from Liquid Spring, one of the sales/expo guys, came from Kelderman. Of course, he's going to to try to sell the newest product for his current employer, so it is biased. He said he was in Alaska when a customer's hose failed. He was able to go to the local NAPA and have a braided hose made since they use standard hydraulic hose and couplings. He said, however, that the fluid is proprietary and you have to get it from Liquid Spring. They are talking about selling it through auto parts stores.

My latest truck idea is using custom air ride and 4-link suspension. We'll see!

I also visited the Liquid Spring truck at MTN West last year. It was a nice set up.
Proprietary fluid would make no sense to me. Even at auto parts stores it would be a stretch. You could be miles away from one. It would dictate carrying "reserve" hydraulic fluid around. How many gallons would that take? You might have to make a hose repair, like you mentioned.

EVERYTHING can fail, as we all know. Will I be carrying an extra airbag, air line and few fittings when I make my next Alaska trip, sure but I should be able to repair it onsite, air up and drive away. I have driven air suspension vehicles for YEARS with nothing more than an annoying leak now and then which is an easy fix.

Can not wait to see your new set up!

CHEERS!!