4wd drive vs 2wd w/locker

[toylandcruiser]

PROVE IT.

My statement is 100% correct.

Originally posted:



As stated, with a transfer case sending equal power to front and rear, and open diffs on both ends, wheel spin will NEVER be limited to just one tire. Once you get to wheel spin with an open diff front and rear you will have wheel spin from TWO tires. One in the front, and one in the rear. Furthermore, the spinning tires will traditionally be on opposite side, as in right front, and left rear, simply due to weight distribution and COG.


Now prove it wrong.

I wasn't talking about a truck being locked in 4wd crazy. I was talking about the differential. I think we are taking about two different things. So calm down. Take a deep breath and relax. All is ok.


Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

 

[John W]

What happens if I only lock one hub on my UJOR van and put it in 4WD?
Would neither front wheel pull, or would only the wheel with the locked hub pull.
My guess is neither.

 

[IdaSHO]

I wasn't talking about a truck being locked in 4wd crazy. I was talking about the differential. I think we are taking about two different things. So calm down. Take a deep breath and relax. All is ok.

Id advise you to READ before you claim something is incorrect.

 

[IdaSHO]

What happens if I only lock one hub on my UJOR van and put it in 4WD?
Would neither front wheel pull, or would only the wheel with the locked hub pull.
My guess is neither.

Assuming it is an open diff, neither would pull. The shaft on the unlocked side would simply spin in the hub.

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

Like I said before; "The way I look at it"... If you don't like the way I look at it that is fine, but I won't say yours was "By far the dumbest comment so far!" because it is your opinion and I don't happen to agree with it. I have never not owned a 4X4 and I would never not own one - my lifestyle demands one. If your lifestyle does not, then fine, and that is the way I look at it. Might want to cut back a cup or two.

The way I look at it, if you can afford 4X4, you should have it, if you can't, you should claim you don't need it.

Face it, with 2WD you are limited much more than you are with 4WD. Places I like to go, you would never even consider without 4WD. My favorite camping spot is not 2WD accessible, you couldn't get in, and if you did you would never get out.

If you limit your travels to unimproved roads, 2WD will get you there - right up until it gets soft or slick (mud, sand, snow or low range rocks) then you be where you were going because you won't go any farther.

4X4 doesn't have to cost that much more and you will always get your money out of it later.

By far the dumbest comment so far! (And a great way to throw a blanket insult at everyone in the thread that thinks there is value in 2wd....way to go):coffeedrink:You must be the guy they were talking about above that spent more time hunting than in school.

Seriously, what a complex you must have about 4x4 vans!:coffeedrink:

But, you're probably right! :coffeedrink: I bought both of my 2wd vans because I couldn't afford a 4x4. Good thing they were those cheapy vans too. (VW Eurovan Westfalia and a Sprinter LWB:coffeedrink I had to suffer with these inadequate cheap vans because I had accidentally filled my garage with 2 classic Porsches, a modern Porsche turbo (4x4 btw:coffeedrink, a rare Audi (4wd) and 4 more motorcycles. (Mostly cheapy KTM and BMW crap..:coffeedrink:...wel except for the two really cheap ones were are traveling the world on that are stored away from here)

But....maybe someday I will be able to afford the pimp cargo van where both sets of wheels turn:coffeedrink:


Sometimes the cost vs. Benefit of a mod just isn't there for everyone! Wasting money doesn't mean you can afford it!

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

Nothing "Wrong" below, in fact 100% correct. The only caveat being that most of the transfer cases used in this community do not have "center diff" so that one wheel on each axle will always be spinning. Those that do have an open "center diff" could be only spinning one.

Thought I'd jump in too. Technically speaking, this is not correct. I think folks are confusing wheel speed with power.

An open differential on the axle equalizes the torque sent to both sides. When one side of the differential has zero traction (e.g., with a wheel in the air), the torque going to that side is negligible. The open diff in turn sends zero (or negligible) torque to the opposite side, which may or may not have traction. A locked differential, on the other hand, does indeed transfer torque (thus power as well) from side to side, since it's not trying to equalize the torque going to each wheel. The side with the most traction at any given moment will experience the highest torque.

Regardless of what kind of differential you have, if a wheel is in the air, it gets essentially zero torque (thus power as well), other than that required to overcome the mass moment of inertia. Draw a free body diagram. Same principles apply to a center diff.

Perhaps it's just semantics, but I just wanted to point that out (sorry). Great discussion.

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

The problem here is you are only showing a situation where the 4X4 with open diffs has no traction at both driven wheels and not comparing it to a locked 2wd that has no traction at both driven wheels. When the 2wd is high centered on the rear diff and both driven wheels cannot get traction or when the rear is stuck in the mud or snow with both driven wheels not getting traction the 4wd with open diffs will still have a driven wheel up front to pull it through.

I have over 40 years of four wheeling, off-roading and desert racing in all kinds of vehicles and conditions and real world experience has proven that a driven wheel front and driven rear wheel is better than two driven wheels either front or rear in all but a very few situations.

An open 4wd will not go everywhere a locked 2wd will. This is kind of the same situation. A super flexy open land rover vs locked stiff sprung rover. A locked 2wd will always have at least one tire on the ground moving it along. An open 4wd will not always have a powered tire on the ground.

http://youtu.be/dBNPZFNOK-4


Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

Or this one

http://youtu.be/XalMpCC3oO0


Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

 

[Cole]

Like I said before; "The way I look at it"... If you don't like the way I look at it that is fine, but I won't say yours was "By far the dumbest comment so far!" because it is your opinion and I don't happen to agree with it. I have never not owned a 4X4 and I would never not own one - my lifestyle demands one. If your lifestyle does not, then fine, and that is the way I look at it. Might want to cut back a cup or two.

The way you seem to look at it is that anyone without 4x4 is a poor person and the only possible reason they don't have 4x4 is for financial reasons! (These were your words, not mine) yippee.....you spent a bunch of coin on 4x4....so what?!

If your "lifestyle" is one of insulting others because they don't have what your do....then......well.....I'll have more coffee:coffeedrink:

 

[Cole]

Of course 4x4 is better, but that wasn't really the OP question. It was a question of if he really "needed" it for the way "he uses his rig"

 

[toylandcruiser]

Id advise you to READ before you claim something is incorrect.

The same can be said to you.


Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

 

[toylandcruiser]

The problem here is you are only showing a situation where the 4X4 with open diffs has no traction at both driven wheels and not comparing it to a locked 2wd that has no traction at both driven wheels. When the 2wd is high centered on the rear diff and both driven wheels cannot get traction or when the rear is stuck in the mud or snow with both driven wheels not getting traction the 4wd with open diffs will still have a driven wheel up front to pull it through.

I have over 40 years of four wheeling, off-roading and desert racing in all kinds of vehicles and conditions and real world experience has proven that a driven wheel front and driven rear wheel is better than two driven wheels either front or rear in all but a very few situations.

I'll still disagree with you.


Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

The way you seem to look at it is that anyone without 4x4 is a poor person (NO I DON'T) and the only possible reason they don't have 4x4 is for financial reasons! (NO I DON'T) (These were your words, not mine) (NO THEY ARE NOT) yippee.....you spent a bunch of coin on 4x4 (NO I DIDN'T)....so what?!

If your "lifestyle" is one of insulting others because they don't have what your do....then......well.....I'll have more coffee:coffeedrink:

Thanks for your thoughts. Enjoy your van anyway you choose and I will do the same.

 

[Jb1rd]

Of course 4x4 is better, but that wasn't really the OP question. It was a question of if he really "needed" it for the way "he uses his rig"

Sorry fellas for opening Pandoras box, who knew? But Cole is right, being the OP, I was thinking about how I am "really going to use" this van and where I would "really be going". I am still confused but that is nothing new, however, I think that I have come to the conclusion that a 2wd of a newer year built in stages is the way to go. That being said I am now just trying to get past not having 4x4 right away, especially for Colorado winter, but I suppose that will be motivation to get it done sooner than later.

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

I'll still disagree with you.


Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

What do you disagree with?

We both agree with Benjamin Franklin!

 

[IdaSHO]

I'll still disagree with you.


Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

And why s that not surprising.

BTW, Im glad to see you downgraded from "wrong" to "disagree"

Your making progress. Unfortunately you are still in the dark.