90 to 110

[Z O O R O P A]

since we are on the subject, any objections to the 2004 Discovery as an expedition vehicle with an adventure trailer? we are buying one and I'm thinking about using it until I find the right D110 (really going to be my gfs rig)

just wondering if maybe I over looked something. I know it is easier to get a tdi300 into a D1 (not even sure its possible in a D2??) but the 2003/04 didn't have the suspension that pre 03 models had

any draw backs to having a trailer? I don't see it changing mpgs much if at all, just thinking about the Horizontal trailer and deep water or is it water tight?

 

[stevenmd]

zooropa - my thesis was a comparative analysis of EIBT (Early Intensive Behavioral Therapy) versus School based programs for autistic children with mild retardation and with no retardation. hmmm, small world. I was also an educational advocate for autistic children for a while.

Teriann - I love the 147! Looks like I need to buy some property in NV so I can register the vehicle...

As for the 2004 DII... I really like the 04 DII. I think it is the last of the good landies. But I'm not sure I want to go this route... perhaps I will and then keep saving my pennies... but dang, I jsut got my rangie built nicely!

I thought about having mercedesrover rebuild it since he does such nice work... but 1000 hrs x $70/hr...:snorkel:

A lot of talk about diesel... I live in California... a diesel is out of the question unless it goes into a IIa... which would be smog exempt.

 

[Alaska Mike]

The last NAS 109s were '67s, were they not?

 

[stevenmd]

A buddy of mine is bringing over a 1983 110 with the lpg conversion... it should be here in a few weeks... he seems to have a knack for finding good vehicles...

 

[Dances with trees]

The 110 imported from the Uk will probably be your best bet, they are getting very cheap in the UK since the price of petrol has gone through the rood, as in 1.20 UK pound per liter.
new taxes are also on the horizon in the UK so folks are selling the 110s at very reasonable prices. I will be importing one shortly, and being in Canada, we can bring in 15 year old vehicles.
Then there is the re-vin alternative many people seem to do, risky business that trying to turn a 110 into a 109 by changing the VIN plate, but some do it.
The land in Nevada is also a good idea, nothing like a vacant lot and a P.O box number to solve all sorts of problems.

 

[Z O O R O P A]

Steven,

very cool! Love to hear about your experiences and thesis sometime for sure!

I have been working in the field of autism for 13 years! I love it and my gf and I are hoping to make some big waves

one boy I've worked with is like my little brother. He will be accompanying me and my gf on our first few trips in Utah. Can't wait!

 

[Tyler Wirken]

Okay I find this very interesting.

Primarily, what I find interesting is most of the responses and how confidant you all are that this can not be done. Really anything is possible.

Reason I say this is I am right in the middle of doing the exact thing that Steven is contemplating.

I am converting my 1997 D-90 to a 110 for the exact reasons that Steven mentioned here. I can not bear selling my 90, I have a growing family and need the room, and I gotta have a defender. So the difference with mine i guess is that I already have a 90 that is excellent condition. Therefore I have 60% of a fine vehicle. Now I must say I feel that luck has something to do with it all also. I have been real fortunate to acquire 85% of the parts I need very economically.

I bought a 1983 110 parts care for $5000. It was already apart for the most part. I got a nice frame, rear tub, rear axle, roof sides, roof and extra bulkhead and parts to sell for cash. I had to replace the rear x member and get the frame galvanized but that was not bad at all. I was able to find a used NAS 110 external cage for $1800 plus a trade for my cage off of my 90. I have basically brand new middle doors for $1400. So with the parts sold off my 90, which is a big cash cow, and the great prices you can find out there if you shop hard and long enough I hope to do this project for around $10,000. I have no idea where I am at on the costs so far but I am pretty sure we are on track. I am not saying it can be done for that consistently, but if you play your cards right and are not in a hurry I think it is possible. I will probably end up spending more for sure, but it surely will not be $30K.

To prove my point- right now on ebay there is a 1983 110 for sale that is ending soon and it is at $5600. A possible better deal than the one I found.

So in the end the only way I see to do a 90 to 110 conversion economically is to either find a crazy good deal on a donor 90 or to already own a 90 and find the parts like I have. You can say why not just sell you 90 and spend 10K to get a 110? On top of the fact that you might be able to find a "decent" 110 for $35-$40k, you will still most likely need to put another $10k into it to make it what you want/functional. Also, for me it was a very personal thing. I just am very connected to my 90 and did not want to sell it, plus I really do not want an NAS 110. There are many things I do not care for about them including the bulkhead- no vents, the probable rust issues, the seats, no sunroof, no r380, etc.... I do like everything about my 1997. The dash, the ac, the motor etc.... Plus I can do all the build minus any body work myself which helps tremendously.

Pretty long post but I felt I needed to say it! Lets just wait and see if I end up eating crow and Slade was correct, but I am willing to take the risk to get what I want in the end.

I have the frame back from the galvanizers and will be starting the tear down on the 90 this weekend and hope by mid june to have a 110 rolling chassis with drive train, and bulkhead in place. I will keep you all posted when I can.

Later

Tyler

 

[Dances with trees]

Hi Tyler

Been a long time since we last talked, hell I have been to Wichata three times since the last time we met, Leadville wasn't it.
I agree with what you are saying, to beat the silly 25 year rule is easiest the just build one, and the NAS 110's are way over priced for what they are.

With any luck I should have a 110 by September, but we have a 15 year rule which makes the whole thing much easier.
Loads of former MOD 110s kicking about up here, most of them in really rough shape.
Still some coming out of the auction, but they are really in poor shape.

have a good one, maybe we can meet up on my trip through this year.
Say hi to James for me.

 

[Maryland 110]

There is some misinformation in this string.

The truck on ebay is not an 83. It has roll up doors and is listed as an 85 or 86 and he indicates in the ad you can't register it in Ca and makes no representations about it being legal elsewhere. It is lhd and worth every penny as a parts truck.
25 year old trucks from the Uk are not all used up as indicated by several in this thread. I am an importer and have yet to bring in a truck that needed anything to be a daily driver. Ie no frame work nor upholstry etc. Yes you can buy a 1983 110 with a solid frame, doors and good bulkhead and straight body panels already on US soil titled already with correct epa and dot releases. Prices range from 12-25k dependant on the condition,body style, and drivetrain desired.
LPG comversions are strictly forbidden by the shipping lines and the systems are supposed to be removed before shipping to the US. Like anything else I suppose you could get one through but I wouldn't put my relationship with customs in jeopardy trying it.

I imported and sold the truck referenced up above in this string: a 300tdi and r380 with only 15K on the transplanted drive train (wont need any belts for another 35k miles), exmoor trim interior, new bulkhead, rust free doors and frame and recent Goodyear MTR's. It sold for a little more than the 18k referenced but not much. Its a very nice truck as imported.

$5k for a LHD conversion is the absolute bottom of the market price and is represenative of a the conversion being done in the Uk with "mostly" new parts. Most shops here will charge considerably more. If you are handy and frugal you can do it your self in a weekend for considerably less once you have sourced the parts.
There is more information on the subject on my website as well as examples of some of the trucks we have imported.I'm happy to share what can and can't be done with anyone interested. Just shoot me an email.

www.dividingcreekroverimports.com

 

[LC/LR4Life]

since we are on the subject, any objections to the 2004 Discovery as an expedition vehicle with an adventure trailer? we are buying one and I'm thinking about using it until I find the right D110 (really going to be my gfs rig)

just wondering if maybe I over looked something. I know it is easier to get a tdi300 into a D1 (not even sure its possible in a D2??) but the 2003/04 didn't have the suspension that pre 03 models had

any draw backs to having a trailer? I don't see it changing mpgs much if at all, just thinking about the Horizontal trailer and deep water or is it water tight?

The 2004 is a great vehicle. I have a rover club friend who has one and loves it. Should be plenty of horses to pull a little adventure trailer too.

The 2002 and 2003 models of the DII did not have central diff lock. I'd stick with the 2004, or swap in an LT230 into a 2002 or 2003. The DII is every bit a Rover as any other. It's all just taste really. My wifes DII is nice, however I prefer the looks of the 1994 Range Rover County myself.

 

[stevenmd]

The 2004 is a great vehicle. I have a rover club friend who has one and loves it. Should be plenty of horses to pull a little adventure trailer too.

The 2002 and 2003 models of the DII did not have central diff lock. I'd stick with the 2004, or swap in an LT230 into a 2002 or 2003. The DII is every bit a Rover as any other. It's all just taste really. My wifes DII is nice, however I prefer the looks of the 1994 Range Rover County myself.

The 2003 has head gasket issues btw.

Oh, and I drive a 1994 RRC LWB!!!:sombrero:

Tyler - keep us posted. I might hold off on my decision to see how you do.

 

[Z O O R O P A]

I imported and sold the truck referenced up above in this string: a 300tdi and r380 with only 15K on the transplanted drive train (wont need any belts for another 35k miles), exmoor trim interior, new bulkhead, rust free doors and frame and recent Goodyear MTR's. It sold for a little more than the 18k referenced but not much. Its a very nice truck as imported.

$5k for a LHD conversion is the absolute bottom of the market price and is represenative of a the conversion being done in the Uk with "mostly" new parts. Most shops here will charge considerably more. If you are handy and frugal you can do it your self in a weekend for considerably less once you have sourced the parts.
There is more information on the subject on my website as well as examples of some of the trucks we have imported.I'm happy to share what can and can't be done with anyone interested. Just shoot me an email.

www.dividingcreekroverimports.com

I would just like to mention, the gentleman I spoke to raved about his experience even after I asked him what he would have done differently. He certainly could resell it for a profit but clearly this is not his motivation. He had nothing but good things to say even after I asked him several pointed questions out of concern. A much better review than any dealer has ever gotten from my experience so I look forward to accessing your business and thanks for posting!

it wouldn't hurt to post some pics of your adventures in UNF

 

[Michael Slade]

Primarily, what I find interesting is most of the responses and how confidant you all are that this can not be done. Really anything is possible.

Yup. Time and money will cure most of the problems this excercise will present.

Reason I say this is I am right in the middle of doing the exact thing that Steven is contemplating.

Umm...pics?

Pretty long post but I felt I needed to say it! Lets just wait and see if I end up eating crow and Slade was correct, but I am willing to take the risk to get what I want in the end.

That proves you are a die-hard Rover owner. BTW, I love the taste of Crow in the morning! I hope I am wrong, for all of those who will try to do this. I know I couldn't.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Okay I find this very interesting.

Primarily, what I find interesting is most of the responses and how confidant you all are that this can not be done. Really anything is possible.

Reason I say this is I am right in the middle of doing the exact thing that Steven is contemplating.

I am converting my 1997 D-90 to a 110 for the exact reasons that Steven mentioned here. I can not bear selling my 90, I have a growing family and need the room, and I gotta have a defender. So the difference with mine i guess is that I already have a 90 that is excellent condition. Therefore I have 60% of a fine vehicle. Now I must say I feel that luck has something to do with it all also. I have been real fortunate to acquire 85% of the parts I need very economically.

I bought a 1983 110 parts care for $5000. It was already apart for the most part. I got a nice frame, rear tub, rear axle, roof sides, roof and extra bulkhead and parts to sell for cash. I had to replace the rear x member and get the frame galvanized but that was not bad at all. I was able to find a used NAS 110 external cage for $1800 plus a trade for my cage off of my 90. I have basically brand new middle doors for $1400. So with the parts sold off my 90, which is a big cash cow, and the great prices you can find out there if you shop hard and long enough I hope to do this project for around $10,000. I have no idea where I am at on the costs so far but I am pretty sure we are on track. I am not saying it can be done for that consistently, but if you play your cards right and are not in a hurry I think it is possible. I will probably end up spending more for sure, but it surely will not be $30K.

To prove my point- right now on ebay there is a 1983 110 for sale that is ending soon and it is at $5600. A possible better deal than the one I found.

So in the end the only way I see to do a 90 to 110 conversion economically is to either find a crazy good deal on a donor 90 or to already own a 90 and find the parts like I have. You can say why not just sell you 90 and spend 10K to get a 110? On top of the fact that you might be able to find a "decent" 110 for $35-$40k, you will still most likely need to put another $10k into it to make it what you want/functional. Also, for me it was a very personal thing. I just am very connected to my 90 and did not want to sell it, plus I really do not want an NAS 110. There are many things I do not care for about them including the bulkhead- no vents, the probable rust issues, the seats, no sunroof, no r380, etc.... I do like everything about my 1997. The dash, the ac, the motor etc.... Plus I can do all the build minus any body work myself which helps tremendously.

Pretty long post but I felt I needed to say it! Lets just wait and see if I end up eating crow and Slade was correct, but I am willing to take the risk to get what I want in the end.

I have the frame back from the galvanizers and will be starting the tear down on the 90 this weekend and hope by mid june to have a 110 rolling chassis with drive train, and bulkhead in place. I will keep you all posted when I can.

The way you're going about it, you're really not stretching a 90 into a 110. You're swapping parts from a 90 onto a 110 chassis and body. As I see it, that's a different thing altogether (physically and legally) than taking a 90's frame and tub and adding 20" to it.

Not to say I think it's a bad idea. I think that's the better way to go about things if it can be accomplished legally. There are too many issues with stretching frames that make me leery. I think my point was that with the typical North American Land Rover owner being concerned about the "correctness" of the vehicle, you are potentially losing tens of thousands of dollars by modifying an otherwise good 90 into something that isn't quite the same thing as a 110, when NAS 110s are available (in limited numbers) and non-NAS 110s are starting to come into the country. That influx can potentially depress the value of the NAS 110s, which makes the concept of "stretching" even less appealing.

If you can find the 110 parts for cheap enough and in good shape, it's an interesting swap.

 

[marc olivares]

you guys and your defender lust make me smile...

i honestly cant think of a more uncomfortable vehicle to overland in than a 90, let alone a 110.

you guys need to listen to Slade, he speaks with a wealth of experience in this area. and even with as crazy cool as his icecream truck is, it's still not as comfy as my DISCO...