A new '07 4Runner for Expeditions

[Redline]

I'm new here, have been reading the threads, and would like some input & opinion regarding my questions and concerns. First I should lay some ground work...

For the last year and a half I have been setting-up an '05 Jeep Wrangler LWB TJ/Rubicon with a 6-speed. It has a moderate, 3-inch lift, front/rear bumpers, Warn 8274 Winch, sliders, cross-over steering, 4.88 ring & pinions and a few other mods. My approach has been to try to keep the Jeep nice for on-road use while tying to make it a better wheeler and crawler. So far I have been fairly successful at keeping it a dual-purpose rig, but compared to a new Toyota it is certainly lacking in on-highway comfort. Off highway the LJ is very good, and for slow speed rock crawling it probably has few peers (other than other set-up, purpose built rigs) but for longer highway trips the ergonomics, wind noise, (lack of) power and other characteristics make it less than ideal.

I have ordered an Adventure Trailer Chaser, which I should have near the beginning January. Though I should be able pull the Chaser behind the LJ almost anywhere I would care to 4-wheel my LJ (maybe even the Rubicon Trail?) surely a new 4Runner would pull a Chaser just as well, except on the more difficult trails. In an effort to have something much more conformable to cover the highway miles that are involved in any trip, a new Toyota has been on my mind for a few weeks. I also seriously considered/studied the pre '05 TDR Tacomas a few years ago.

I read a 20+ page thread about setting-up an '05 Taco as well as a shorter thread about an '06 4Runner. I had expected to post here with questions about a new Taco but after a visit to the Toyota dealer yesterday where I drove a new TDR Tacoma, an FJCrusier, and a V8 4Runner (in that order) I was most impressed by the 4Runner. Good power, ride, creature comforts and ergonomics for my tall frame. I'm now thinking a V8 4Runner SR5 with a few select options might be very nice (surprising words for me to type. I'm an manual transmission fan but was really impressed with the 5-speed A/T in the 4Runner. I came away impressed and excited, and thinking I could be very happy to drive one of these upscale, comfortable SUVs as my daily driver and expedition vehicle.

Some of my concerns/questions are:

I really prefer a manual trans, how will A/T and hill decent feature control speed down technical hills?

Will the ABS (than can't be turned off) cause problems while needing to ride the brakes on slow down hills?

No T-case shift lever, so how reliable is the 4x4 twist knob on the dash (manual hubs and T-case is my preference)?

How does the part-time V6 and full-time V8 system work? Axle disconnect on the V6? Axles always turning on the V8 as it's a viscous coupled system waiting for slippage unless the center is 'locked' into 4x4?

No locker option is a slight negative (cheaper from the dealer/factory) but I assume I can put a an ARB in the rear? Front too?

If I could clear 265/75R16 or even better 255/85R16 without a suspension lift (just trimming?) that would be great. But I think the new 4Runners are a little low and it may need a few inches of lift for added clearance or less lift to compensate for a heavy front bumper/winch. What do you guys think?

Are there any good rear bumpers for the new 4Runners to drag off-road?

There is lots to think about. If I decide I want to sell my Rubicon, sacrificing some killer off-highway crawling ability for a much more comfortable daily-driver and expedition vehicle, I will obviously loose most of the several thousand dollars I have put into the Wrangler (but I've learned plenty). And, although I prefer the styling of my TJ to the new Jeep JK, if/when Jeep comes out with a new diesel I would like to have one as I'm a big-time diesel fan. Still, a Toyota (reliability/quality) may be a better all-around 'car' and an expedition platform.

Thank in advance for any comments/opinions,

James

 

[Sgt Grunt]

James,

Are you set on buying/trading for something new???

I just did a 3500 mile trip in my Land Cruiser FZJ 80 that was loaded to the hilt and was over all pretty happy with how it did, minus the fuel consumption. Since the trip, which was mostly on road . I have gotten the bug to look at a few other options. But, I will say that for a multi use all around good truck the 80 is very good candidate, barring one thing... the last one to come into the U.S. is 10 years old. So for me in keeping with a similar set up to what I have, a double cab Taco probably makes the most sence, follow by a 100 series Land Cuiser.

If I was to change my set up completely, I would buy a slide in camper for my 06 2500 Dodge Diesel and build something to pull behind it on a trailer. After all we do live in the land of perfect highways and doing real expedition travel will probably at best be 25% off road.

Which ever way you go it will be fun. If you decide to sell the Jeep let me know, I may go the tow rig route sooner than later. I hope my Toyota friends don't hear me say that...:yikes:

 

[Ryanmb21]

You ask several great questions, I love my '06 4runner. The V6 and V8 4runner's have the same transmissions and transfer case's, they come with a torsen differential that when shifted into 4hi can be used on-road 100% of the time, which the V8 always is. These come with a center diff-lock, which when locked = a normal transfer case. ARB lockers can be put in the front and rear, although most people have been fine with ATRAC which comes standard. I chose the V6 because I like the option of using 2wd and saving some gas.

There are several good lift options, although I don't think a rear bumper has been made yet.

Here are some threads worth looking at:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811&highlight=runner

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1825

Also, another good forum that focuses on 4runner specifics is :

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/index.php?

(This site has some awesome 4runner's, and loads of info specific, a must read if your are considering a 4runner)

Good luck!
:rockon:

 

[Scott Brady]

I would recommend keeping the LJ...

Buy some nice seats, install a Borla exhaust system (headers and exhaust) and gearing, add some insulation to the flooring and maybe a headliner in the top.

Use all the money you save on a new vehicle for fuel to explore the SW :beer:

 

[k6uk]

I am totally loving my 4runner!
I am still in the process of outfitting it, but it has been just great on and off road, and I don't regret it a bit!

 

[Redline]

Yes, I am set on buying new (it's a disease . I like getting exactly what I want (color, options) and starting with a clean sheet and doing it 'my way'. Wearing-in the engine and other systems changing fluids early and often, hoping to help longevity. This matters not if a vehicle doesn't stay in the stable long but if it does, like my '96 F-350, you know the history and have laid a great foundation. Once the first 100k pass you are more than ready for more (s)miles.

I did consider the FZJ80 briefly. While an excellent platform, they are 10-years old as you say and I don't care to start with a vehicle with a long, unknown history and presumably several thousand miles (100K+).

My Wrangler is cool and functional but your '25% off-highway' comment hits the 'nail-on-the-head'. This is one of the main reasons I'm thinking of changing vehicles. Most travel, including adventuring/expeditions includes lots of highway miles...

James

James,

Are you set on buying/trading for something new???

I just did a 3500 mile trip in my Land Cruiser FZJ 80 that was loaded to the hilt and was over all pretty happy with how it did, minus the fuel consumption. Since the trip, which was mostly on road . I have gotten the bug to look at a few other options. But, I will say that for a multi use all around good truck the 80 is very good candidate, barring one thing... the last one to come into the U.S. is 10 years old. So for me in keeping with a similar set up to what I have, a double cab Taco probably makes the most sence, follow by a 100 series Land Cuiser.

If I was to change my set up completely, I would buy a slide in camper for my 06 2500 Dodge Diesel and build something to pull behind it on a trailer. After all we do live in the land of perfect highways and doing real expedition travel will probably at best be 25% off road.

Which ever way you go it will be fun. If you decide to sell the Jeep let me know, I may go the tow rig route sooner than later. I hope my Toyota friends don't hear me say that...:yikes:

 

[Redline]

Sound advise from the experienced... Though the LJ is far from paid for I have thousands invested that I will loose/sacrifice.

I already have the have gearing on my LJ, it did make the power/drivability much better. Some reclining Mastercraft seats would be relatively inexpensive compared to buying anew 4Runner with an 8-way seat attached

Still, reading the link posted above from your thread on the ARB 4Runner trip/test swings me back the other direction, confirming what a great, comfortable, capable ride the new 4Runners are, or can be.

James

I would recommend keeping the LJ...

Buy some nice seats, install a Borla exhaust system (headers and exhaust) and gearing, add some insulation to the flooring and maybe a headliner in the top.

Use all the money you save on a new vehicle for fuel to explore the SW :beer:

 

[Redline]

What size tires/lift do you have?

I am totally loving my 4runner!
I am still in the process of outfitting it, but it has been just great on and off road, and I don't regret it a bit!

 

[Redline]

"although I don't think a rear bumper has been made yet"

I see this as a big negative. The 4Runner doesn't have a very good departure angle and therefore a stout, aftermarket rear bumper is needed for the guaranteed butt dragging in the sand & rocks.

You ask several great questions, I love my '06 4runner. The V6 and V8 4runner's have the same transmissions and transfer case's, they come with a torsen differential that when shifted into 4hi can be used on-road 100% of the time, which the V8 always is. These come with a center diff-lock, which when locked = a normal transfer case. ARB lockers can be put in the front and rear, although most people have been fine with ATRAC which comes standard. I chose the V6 because I like the option of using 2wd and saving some gas.

There are several good lift options, although I don't think a rear bumper has been made yet.

Here are some threads worth looking at:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811&highlight=runner

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1825

Also, another good forum that focuses on 4runner specifics is :

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/index.php?

(This site has some awesome 4runner's, and loads of info specific, a must read if your are considering a 4runner)

Good luck!
:rockon:

 

[Redline]

PSI Sensors & 'Power-Braking'

I think the 4Runners have an electronic throttle... Can they be 'power-braked'?

I know the system won't allow the tires to slip but I want to confirm the engine power is not cut if the right foot is on the gas and the left is on the brake at the same time. Obviously for slow technical sections of road being able to inch forward playing the engine against the brakes is critical. (My little VW Golf TDI won't let me do this, but it doesn't 4-wheel much

PSI Sensors:

Reading the 4Runner brochure indicates it has tire pressure sensors. If/when tire PSI is low what happens??? If just an 'idiot light' illuminates I think it's probably okay. If there is a warning beep or anything else is affected then I would say it's bad. Obviously I will let air out of the tires when off-highway.

Thanks,

James

 

[Redline]

Nitto Terra Grapplers 265/70/17 |OME suspension

Having now read your signature line, I see what suspension/tires you have. The tires are not taller than stock?

Do the 07s come with ATRAC? Are they calling it something different?

I see Downhill Assist Control (DAC), Hill Start Assist Control (HAC) and Torsen limited-slip center differential listed in the brochure, but no ATRAC. Is the Torsen center diff the same as ATRAC?

You ask several great questions, I love my '06 4runner. The V6 and V8 4runner's have the same transmissions and transfer case's, they come with a torsen differential that when shifted into 4hi can be used on-road 100% of the time, which the V8 always is. These come with a center diff-lock, which when locked = a normal transfer case. ARB lockers can be put in the front and rear, although most people have been fine with ATRAC which comes standard. I chose the V6 because I like the option of using 2wd and saving some gas.

There are several good lift options, although I don't think a rear bumper has been made yet.

Here are some threads worth looking at:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811&highlight=runner

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1825

Also, another good forum that focuses on 4runner specifics is :

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/index.php?

(This site has some awesome 4runner's, and loads of info specific, a must read if your are considering a 4runner)

Good luck!
:rockon:

 

[Robthebrit]

Torsen or 'Torque Sensing' diffs are usually used to make a permanent 4WD drive systems and are not like a-trac, a-trac is completely computer controlled and torsen is a completely mechanical system although may have some electronic components these days. Torsen diffs are used on H1s and are basically an open diff that works as a torque multiplier, ie, they can multiply the torque of the low traction side and apply it to the high traction side.

They work very well although lifting a wheel can cause problems, if the torque multipler is 5 then 5 times 0 is 0 and in effect that axle is disabled. If you get one wheel on both axles off the floor you are effectively stuck. H1's quite effectively get around this by holding the brake and applying gas, then you get 5 times the braking force applied to the other wheel which is more than enough to overcome the brakes and move the vehicle forwads, its a little tricky to get just right but it does work. Diagonal ditch crossings are a typical cause for lifting one wheel on each axle and it is this that gave the H1 a bad name with some offroaders, it really is just a name and the H1 is great off road once you get used to it. Torsens can sometimes have problems with ice and deep snow for the same reasons.

If you have a Torsen in all three positoins you can effectively forget about engaging/disengaging 4wd etc and let the system handle it. The end result is a system like the modern electronic systems but something seems more correct about them, there is less voodoo and they are all mechanical.

I am not 100% sure how they actually work, you can find exploded pictures of them on the web and they appear to be remarkably complicated. I have never had to take to pieces and really figure it out.

Rob

 

[LexusAllTerrain]

Nitto Terra Grapplers 265/70/17 |OME suspension

Having now read your signature line, I see what suspension/tires you have. The tires are not taller than stock?

Do the 07s come with ATRAC? Are they calling it something different?

I see Downhill Assist Control (DAC), Hill Start Assist Control (HAC) and Torsen limited-slip center differential listed in the brochure, but no ATRAC. Is the Torsen center diff the same as ATRAC?

Atrac is standard equipment on the 4Runner, I have a 03' 4runner, V8 Allwheel drive and the system works great. Very smooth drive, I like the Xreas system, however I am looking into the OME 3" lift, tires and I would be ready to go!
Oh! and the tire stock size are 265/65-17"

 

[Ryanmb21]

Nitto Terra Grapplers 265/70/17 |OME suspension

Having now read your signature line, I see what suspension/tires you have. The tires are not taller than stock?

Do the 07s come with ATRAC? Are they calling it something different?

I see Downhill Assist Control (DAC), Hill Start Assist Control (HAC) and Torsen limited-slip center differential listed in the brochure, but no ATRAC. Is the Torsen center diff the same as ATRAC?

The stock size is 265/65/17, so mine are a bit taller. From what I understand, The Torsen limited slip, is more of an advantage when on-road that off, it gives you AWD for slick road conditions, where traditional 4wd would faulter. In tough off-road situations, it's my understanding that locking the center diff and using ATRAC will get you through almost anything, and yes ATRAC is standard on all 4x4 4th gen 4runners.

I have used the brake and throttle at the same time and never noticed any power decrease, although I could be wrong on this.

 

[Ryanmb21]

I think the 4Runners have an electronic throttle... Can they be 'power-braked'?


PSI Sensors:

Reading the 4Runner brochure indicates it has tire pressure sensors. If/when tire PSI is low what happens??? If just an 'idiot light' illuminates I think it's probably okay. If there is a warning beep or anything else is affected then I would say it's bad. Obviously I will let air out of the tires when off-highway.

Thanks,

James

An idiot light comes on, that's all. The sensors are in the wheel, so changing the tires doesn't affect the system at all, and it works on the spare as well :elkgrin: