SteveMfr
Supporting Sponsor
My first post here and, as a long-time P38 owner, I've gotta dive in head-first.
First the important poop. The designation P38 was never official - during development it was code named 'Pegasus' at LR and developed in building 38A at Solihull, so unofficially it became the P38A or just P38. At least on this side of the pond, calling it RR II or MK II is also quite common and unmistakable for anyone that knows a little about RR's. About the only thing that won't work is 'New Range Rover' despite it having been called that in the RAVE electronic manual. Pick up the last version of the RAVE and 'New Range Rover' takes you to the LM (or L322 or RR MK III or RR III...) whereas 'Range Rover takes you to the P38. Go figure.
And on to items less important. IMO, what ruined the P38's rep was not so much LR's build quality but LR's service and information policies. Considering what they are and do, the electronics in the P38 are surprisingly robust and not all that intimidating. Unfortunately, LR did not inform its customers or the world outside of its dealer network on anything surrounding these issues (we are too stupid to comprehend the magic) and even tried to keep the diagnostic hardware/sw to within its dealer network (as most auto manufacturers did, btw, till newer legislation forced them to make diagnostics avail. to anyone). This, combined with a policy of selling parts only in large units ($800 compressor vs. a $5 seal, $800 valve block rather than 50cents in o-rings) and, of course, LR prices killed the P38's rep very quickly.
So, you couldn't get the car repaired outside of the dealer because an indy was basically faced with issues akin to when the motherboard on his PC starts crapping out. Sure he can open the case, but then he has no clue and no one to turn to for help. And having the car repaired at the dealer was ridiculously expensive - even if the problems were not caused by expensive, hard to replace components but by small electronic problems or sw issues. As a customer, you were fuched - and if I'd payed $60k + for a car only to be stuck with several $1000 repair bills every coupla months, I'd have been peeved too.
Add to all of the above LR engineers thinking that the common public was too stupid to deal with their cars as well and installing safety features such as suspensions that drop to the bump stops with no prior warning (at least as far as the customer knew - if they'd have been informed they would have known...) and security features such as a BeCM that worries so much about open windows (that have not been reset after a battery disconnect) that it drains the battery in a matter of days (makes the car even harder to steal)...
If the indies and customers would've only known. But as Spikemd already said, today that info is out there. As are diagnostic computers/aids.
End rant.
Mechanically the P38 is no more complex than any other LR and pretty robust and very capable in stock form. And the level of comfort is not to be compared to nearly anything else out there. Is it the right vehicle to do extreme rock-crawling with? Probably not. But it is amongst the best all-round vehicles you can buy if your all-around includes off-road travel. Long distance travel, daily driver, off road vehicle, family car. And all in luxury.
We've done quite a bit of travel all over Europe in our DSE including extensive off-roading (lifted EAS, two RTT and lots of other little poop). It's now got 330K Km's and is still going strong.
I love my P38 :sombrero:
First the important poop. The designation P38 was never official - during development it was code named 'Pegasus' at LR and developed in building 38A at Solihull, so unofficially it became the P38A or just P38. At least on this side of the pond, calling it RR II or MK II is also quite common and unmistakable for anyone that knows a little about RR's. About the only thing that won't work is 'New Range Rover' despite it having been called that in the RAVE electronic manual. Pick up the last version of the RAVE and 'New Range Rover' takes you to the LM (or L322 or RR MK III or RR III...) whereas 'Range Rover takes you to the P38. Go figure.
And on to items less important. IMO, what ruined the P38's rep was not so much LR's build quality but LR's service and information policies. Considering what they are and do, the electronics in the P38 are surprisingly robust and not all that intimidating. Unfortunately, LR did not inform its customers or the world outside of its dealer network on anything surrounding these issues (we are too stupid to comprehend the magic) and even tried to keep the diagnostic hardware/sw to within its dealer network (as most auto manufacturers did, btw, till newer legislation forced them to make diagnostics avail. to anyone). This, combined with a policy of selling parts only in large units ($800 compressor vs. a $5 seal, $800 valve block rather than 50cents in o-rings) and, of course, LR prices killed the P38's rep very quickly.
So, you couldn't get the car repaired outside of the dealer because an indy was basically faced with issues akin to when the motherboard on his PC starts crapping out. Sure he can open the case, but then he has no clue and no one to turn to for help. And having the car repaired at the dealer was ridiculously expensive - even if the problems were not caused by expensive, hard to replace components but by small electronic problems or sw issues. As a customer, you were fuched - and if I'd payed $60k + for a car only to be stuck with several $1000 repair bills every coupla months, I'd have been peeved too.
Add to all of the above LR engineers thinking that the common public was too stupid to deal with their cars as well and installing safety features such as suspensions that drop to the bump stops with no prior warning (at least as far as the customer knew - if they'd have been informed they would have known...) and security features such as a BeCM that worries so much about open windows (that have not been reset after a battery disconnect) that it drains the battery in a matter of days (makes the car even harder to steal)...
If the indies and customers would've only known. But as Spikemd already said, today that info is out there. As are diagnostic computers/aids.
End rant.
Mechanically the P38 is no more complex than any other LR and pretty robust and very capable in stock form. And the level of comfort is not to be compared to nearly anything else out there. Is it the right vehicle to do extreme rock-crawling with? Probably not. But it is amongst the best all-round vehicles you can buy if your all-around includes off-road travel. Long distance travel, daily driver, off road vehicle, family car. And all in luxury.
We've done quite a bit of travel all over Europe in our DSE including extensive off-roading (lifted EAS, two RTT and lots of other little poop). It's now got 330K Km's and is still going strong.
I love my P38 :sombrero:
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