About to take the plunge - 2001 Range Rover

[SeaRubi]

JSQ, Jack, whoever you are:

A very good friend of mine happens to be co-owner of a very good independent LR shop in the PNW and had decent things to say about these trucks, as I've been pestering him for information on them as they're on my own short-list for a new rig. I believe the information he's given me first hand that's based on his own day-to-day experience in both repairs and upgrades and preparation while at dealerships and then his own shop over any kind of ham-fisted conjecture you seem to be so proud of parroting.

To my knowledge, none of the guys in your "against" list are certified land rover mechanics, and there is at least another tech on the forum who's trying to offer information and it pains me that he's had to be exposed to your idiocy. You're the kind of guy that runs valuable people off of these forums because they get tired of tough guys on the internet telling them what they know and work with every day for a paycheck is wrong somehow.

I've met Scott Brady and have a high regard for his opinion, but I disagreed with his original list of points and explained why in a non-threatening and respectful way. I know Mike Rupp, and I've seen Slade's ice cream truck when it was a frame and a pile of parts on Timm Coopers shop floor. Until this thread came along I have no idea who you are besides an arrogant, insecure, and ungraciously immature Internet Toughguy that doesn't seem to have anything valuable to add.

You could do much better here by exercising some courtesy and cut it out with the name calling and blatant effort to alienate and incense newer members engaged in the process of sharing their own first hand information and experiences to those who are asking for it. I don't see any RTT's and long off-road trips logged on your rig, eh tough guy?

As for this notion of pointing to the DII's over the P38's, two friends of mine right now have their own DII trucks torn apart right now. One with a blown motor, his wife's vehicle that's only seen pavement and pampering. The other has had to remove his entire dash to replace a damaged wiring harness that was causing his truck to badly misfire. Talk about nightmare - you have no idea as to how much wiring is behind that dash. And all this after his first engine blew up at 70k.

No Land Rover product is without it's share of misfortune and mechanical peril. This isn't exactly what I would call an epiphany for anyone.

regards,
isaac fain

 

[david despain]

Until this thread came along I have no idea who you are besides an arrogant, insecure, and ungraciously immature Internet Toughguy that doesn't seem to have anything valuable to add.....
I don't see any RTT's and long off-road trips logged on your rig, eh tough guy?

now I dont know Jack, he does't know me but,

to say that he has nothing valuable to add is kind of short-sighted. there is good info in this thread by jack, the tdi into a nas DI thread,the spares list for a DI thread, etc. just to name a couple off the top of my head. in the tdi thread he references and quotes a thread on EE. If as you say, you had no idea about what his "cred" is, after that post I would check out that thread on the EE board. Jack's postings have been around in the rover web forums for many years, it is hard to miss them.
I highly doubt you will ever see a RTT on any of his trucks :ylsmoke: but he has taken some long and lonely back roads trips both in the US and abroad and has some nice pics to go along with them.

If you dont like his style, and many don't, fine whatever, it makes me no nevermind, but he certianly has contributed valuable info over the years. It occurs to me that many of the most abrasive, abusive, call it like they see it posters on this interwebs actually contribute some of the most useable helpful info out there. that's not to say that useful stuff has to be what some would consider rude, but if the message has merit....well there you have it.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Blows my mind that a guy can't point out an obviously bad weld on one thread without being moderated, but this stuff carries on unchecked?

"Eurotrash"? "some guy in France"?

Develop a common sense baseline, and moderate to it.

You really missed the plot twist on that. Red90, the original guy who made a comment was never "moderated". He made the comment in a mature, respectful manner... His comments are still there, even though they're wrong. There is no physical indication of a defect on the outside, and the inside of the weld shows the weld does in fact go right through. The guys who were moderated just piled on some more internet toughguy antics.

 

[lstrvr]

I wasn't talking about Red90. I was referring to the "internet tough guys" you mentioned. I don't care about the condition of your welds, my post is not about you. What does bother me is what appears to be a real lack of consistency in the moderation of these threads. It is easily apparent that some of these recent posts have been written with no interest in anything else than satisfying one's ego and being blatantly rude and insulting. If this forum is going to be moderated, then moderate.

 

[spikemd]

spikemd asked for advice on picking up a P38, but that clearly wasn't what he was really looking for.

When he got responses from people with plenty of experience, not only with the specific vehicle, but with strong fourwheeling backgrounds it was overwhelmingly negative.

But what he was really looking for was someone to cheerlead his upcoming purchase with plenty of congratulations, emoticons and welcome banners.
Lucky for him, there were people who didn't have serious contributions but wanted to be part of the party so they chimed in to fulfill spikemd's desires.

Homeboy can get whatever truck he wants. That's his prerogative.
But he can't play victim when he solicits advice and is contradicted. And he's not entitled exclusively to pats on the back and attaboys.
He's also welcome to ignore the input he gets at his peril, but take a good look at who he's ignoring and stack that against the people he's listening to.

wow... this thread has become really personal and offtopic...

I don't need cheerleading, attaboys, emoticons or welcome banners... and I am not quite sure how I am 'playing victim' here...

just to clarify, I was looking for advice for folks about the truck. and yes, it is my perogative to make my own choice and solicit advice. I chose to listen to the folks that own and drive these trucks as well as listen to the many criticisms from others. There seems to be an overall distaste for the P38, but like many things on these forums, I see opinions being fueled by many who have never driven or used equipment they are giving advice on. I found much more useful discussions of the P38 on the specific land rover sites (discoweb, rangerovers.net, aulro) as well as tried to gleam as much information about the problem spots and fixes available out there. I don't think I need to justify my purchase again, as I already outlined it previously...

Yes, I do respect the opinion of Scott Brady and other well-seasoned ExPo members, though I have not met them personally. He is a wealth of information and I respect his opinions. I also respect the opinions of many other people on this and other forums. It is the collective knowledge and wisdom of the many that makes them so valuable. Bashing others because you don't know them is juvenile. Brady also said he 'wants' to love the P38. We will see what my ownership experience brings me... It could be a disaster or it could be great. I hope to show that a P38 with the EAS and airsprings can be a capable reliable rig for mild wheeling and trips. I don't plan on using this Range Rover for month-long expeditions to Alaska or to explore the jungles of Belize. I want a decent capable truck to take out on the occasional trip. I plan to document my ownership experience on this forum in hopes that it may benefit other prospective or current owners.

Like some members, I am constrained by financial budgets when it comes to expedition travel or building a rig. Right now, I am unable to spend thousands of dollars on top-of-the line expo gear or to build a killer rig (rockrover). I would love to have a full SnowPeak cooking set, infrared stove, SD rack, RTT, latest GPS, full roll-out drawer system and 5 inch lift. But right now, that is not a reality for me, (though I did spring for an ARB fridge for our trip to Utah/Death Valley). I am willing to work on the truck and maintain it and hopefully do enough preventative maintenance to make it reliable. This truck fit my budget and I am up to the challenge... and again, I like the look, style and interior of the P38 over the Disco.

 

[muskyman]

Man the guys that hang out here have thin skin...LOL

 

[R_Lefebvre]

What does bother me is what appears to be a real lack of consistency in the moderation of these threads. It is easily apparent that some of these recent posts have been written with no interest in anything else than satisfying one's ego and being blatantly rude and insulting. If this forum is going to be moderated, then moderate.

Ok, then I agree. That's why I fired back the way I did. I'm not normally like that but figured if that's the way it's gonna be... But, I'm glad it all got cleaned up.

 

[JSQ]

JSQ, Jack, whoever you are:

wah wah wah

blah blah blah

regards,
isaac fain

I'll take the Pepsi Challenge with you any day, homeboy.

I ran an independent shop.
I've owned a P38 as well of a number of other LRs for years.
And I guarantee I've logged more offroad miles in more places then you.

The fact that none of the guys who criticized the P38 are stealership techs should tell you something. Like maybe they know the vehicle and its suitability well enough to call it like it is without any personal investment in perpetuating the myth.

What these chumps don't get is that it's people like us who actually fight the good fight because we keep the moron hordes with all their ignorant glad-handing at bay. We're the people who pull cards on the bull**** so that the people who don't know any better aren't mislead by the wannabes.
Talk all the **** you want about Discoweb, the truth is revealed there.
It's hilarious to me that these rookies actually think the people giving them the straight dope are the jerks and so they cry for moderation.

And the chumps are clamoring to malign me, but where is the tough-guy talk really coming from?





And no you won't see a RTT, sin qua none of the poseur, on any of my trucks.

 

[JSQ]

man the guys that hang out here have thin skin...lol

show me your rtt, pretender!

 

[GregH]

I'm also a believer in keeping the P38 in stock form.

I'm realistic about what its strengths and weaknesses are. It's pretty much best left alone. If you limit it to the activities it's good at as a stocker, you'll be much happier.

Don't let Jack fool you.

That Engel has no food in it-it's chock full of BeCM's.

And that Ugartechea is only there to put that truck out of it's misery when it dies on the trail.

 

[SteveMfr]

I said I'd stay away, but...

I ran an independent shop.

Me too, Jack. I owned one and managed another. On both sides of the Atlantic.

I've owned a P38 as well of a number of other LRs for years.

Me too, Jack. I could do a sig just like yours. At present: RRC 2Dr, RRC 4dr, P38, and LM/L322/MKIII (so the experts know which model I'm trying to designate). And non-LR: a 911, a Bug, and a '71 Camaro SS. (and I'd really like to know where TF you had first-hand experience with the M51 engine. Did you ever drive with one? Turn a wrench on one? You think the TD5 would have been a better choice? Why do you call it ****ty?)

And I guarantee I've logged more offroad miles in more places then you.

I don't know you, Jack. You don't know me either, tho, or anyone else here. Silly point to argue. And even if, do you need to look down on all others?

The fact that none of the guys who criticized the P38 are stealership techs should tell you something. Like maybe they know the vehicle and its suitability well enough to call it like it is without any personal investment in perpetuating the myth.

Funny, but that is exactly the perspective I was trying to make my case from. LR's treating all outside the network as stupid. Especially the customer.

What these chumps don't get is that it's people like us who actually fight the good fight because we keep the moron hordes with all their ignorant glad-handing at bay. We're the people who pull cards on the bull**** so that the people who don't know any better aren't mislead by the wannabes.
Talk all the **** you want about Discoweb, the truth is revealed there.
It's hilarious to me that these rookies actually think the people giving them the straight dope are the jerks and so they cry for moderation.

It's attitude and the language, Jack. You seem to look down on everybody and everything in your environment.

And the chumps are clamoring to malign me, but where is the tough-guy talk really coming from?

I really don't know, Jack. I see no need for it - even under the assumption that you do know more than everyone else. The one thing you really don't see is that everybody is different. Some people are balls out off-roaders, others are catalog readers and lead a Walter-Mitty-like existence. Who TF are you to judge?
You call people chumps, morons, jerks, rookies, wannabees, trash, poseurs and you expect none of it back? Are you are completely socially inept or do you enjoy this?
Musky's avatar on dweb seems very befitting.

And no you won't see a RTT, sin qua none of the poseur, on any of my trucks.

It's 'sine qua non', Jack.
As for poseur, I don't know, Jack. You see, it's a little bit of a family tradition for us. Pop-in-law (who also had 3 RRC's) did a lot of off-roading throughout Europe and Africa including the Sahara and Iceland (I was into the G-wagen, not LR's at all, before him. Thought they were all POS's due to the electrics). I know he had many more miles than you simply based on age (I assume you're 30 like it says in your profile). He did this first w/ a sleeping bag, then w/a roof top tent, then 2 rtt's after he had my wife and her sister, then 1 rtt again later once th kids were gone. We are continuing that tradition. And we now have 2 little girls so we have 2 tents. And it is better, Jack. Better than not doing anything of the like until they grow up. And they've seen and experienced things none of their little friends have. I can live with being a poseur in your eyes, Jack. Or a moron, dweeb, one of the horde, unmanly, or whatever else.


I'm not into modifiying my cars so the axles fall out to achieve a RTI of 87000 or staying at campgrounds/vacation colonies for weeks on end. I thought I found a place where I could hang and where rtt didn't draw up mental images of hammering nails through shingles for lines.
I deal with enough aggravation in my day job, tho.
I'm outta here.

 

[Geo14cux]

Jack you can't enlighten the world. Buy the P38 whateverthe****.

 

[Scott Brady]

The truth must be told. The only thing the moderators will delete is when someone reaches their limit of articulating the truth in a civil way.

The only rule we have is about pointless generalizations, which solve nothing, like "Toyotas Suck".

The reality is what it is. The P38 is the least appropriate of the RRs for what we do. That does not mean a person should not buy one. I know Discoveries have issues, but I could just not stay away. I love my Disco, and maintain it aggressively, resulting in only one failure in the 2.5 years I have owned it.

The main reason I felt obligated to say something in this thread, is that spikemd has been driving Toyotas, and is now looking at a very maintenance intensive model. It is important that he makes the decision eyes wide open. . .

 

[SeaRubi]

I'll take the Pepsi Challenge with you any day, homeboy.

I ran an independent shop.

I'll hazard a guess here, Shirley: your customer-always-wrong methodology worked out real well, didn't it?

Report Card for Duties

a) Shop B1tch. F
b) Frustrating the techs. A+
c) Surfing DiscoWeb while others earn your paycheck: B-

It's not worth getting worked up about, I'm sure.

I've owned a P38 as well of a number of other LRs for years.
And I guarantee I've logged more offroad miles in more places then you.

Like every other big mouth poseur on these kinds of forums I'm sure you have a bunch of pansy photo galleries and thousandfold post-count on DiscoWeb as high evidence of your badassedness for all the newbies whose attention you so desperately need to stroke your online ego.

Get a grip, pal. Nobody cares, Ol' Yeller died, Santa Claus ain't real and it's going to be ok. Ma has a nice warm glass of milk for ya that's going to make things better so you can go back to makin' friends and forget this ugly little business of putting people down that you don't know from Adam.

The fact that none of the guys who criticized the P38 are stealership techs should tell you something. Like maybe they know the vehicle and its suitability well enough to call it like it is without any personal investment in perpetuating the myth.

Go on, now - let the bitterness and hatred and mudslinging keep those fires burning. I'm sure it's doing your next enterprise heaps of good.

What these chumps don't get is that it's people like us who actually fight the good fight because we keep the moron hordes with all their ignorant glad-handing at bay.

What you don't seem to get is that Jack Quinlan's flippant attitude royally sucks and isn't called for, regardless of how hard you keep trying to polarize everyone besides Jack Quinlan's forum posts into a dumb schoolyard "with me / without me" mentality and prattling derogatory names like an angry Jr High drop-out selling drugs to Kindergartners on a street corner in Compton.


Sticks and stones, baby cakes Go have a cookie and try to be good.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I ran an independent shop.

So before you were 30, you had your own shop. What, did Daddy buy it for you? How did that work out? What with all the trucks, Porsche, fancy guns, etc, I figured you were a lawyer or doctor.

Now it's all more clear.