Anyone using a P38 Range Rover as an Overland Vehicle?

[majornerd]

I have been lurking here for a while, with little to contribute (you all do an excellent job and leave me speechless). This morning I realized that while the P38 is a beautiful vehicle and does have some issues, I have seen RRC and 3rd gen Range Rover overland vehicles (rare, but exist) I have never seen a P38 build.

Is it a reliability issue? Cost? Part/Accessory availability? Is there something about them that I do not know excluding them as a possibility?

 

[MattScott]

Here is your thread:

About to take the plunge -2001 Range Rover

Alot of people choose to stray away from the P38 as a long term expedition vehicle because of concerns with reliability, build quality, and serviceability.

 

[majornerd]

Matt - thanks - read through that thread and I may be scarred for life.... the flaming... oh God, the pain..... but the information seems to be there so I do appreciate the information.

 

[Rocket Ship]

What a shame SteveMfr isn't posting here anymore.

 

[majornerd]

Yeah, it almost seems that discussion chased him away. Too bad.

 

[Rocket Ship]

It doesn't just seem that way, that is definitely what happened. His first post was the most useful one in that whole thread and really cleared up a lot of misconceptions with the P38. The problem with the P38 is more perception than reality, due to the way Land Rover handled service and support. And those exact same problems exist in the D2, but to a lesser extent, only because there was less technology installed in it, so less to go wrong, or it is easier for a shadetree mechanic to figure out on their own. This same situation exists for all European cars of the same era. A 3-series BMW holds it's value better than a 7-series because it is easier and cheaper to keep in good repair. Ditto the MB C230 vs. E320. Or and Audi A4 vs. an A8.


The 3rd generation Range Rover is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude more complex, but luckily the electronics are generally more robust, and the aftermarket has caught up to where the OEM's are with electronic diagnostic equipment. I'm not saying they are overall a better vehicle. Very few people from this crowd have bought one, so there is not much info out there, for better or for worse.

 

[Wander]

As mentioned in the linked thread before things got silly, the after market never really tooled up for this model so if you want to do an "overland" build you might have to get some items fabricated as they are not readilly available. You can find lifts to add when changing to a coil spring from the air bags and I've seen a bumper or two but I think those were custom.

 

[DarthBeaver]

Spikemd posts here a lot and has a P38 as his main off-road vehicle.

 

[spikemd]

Hmm... where do I start... Yes, I was the one who started that crazy thread above and even after all the negative advice, I bought it. And I would do it again... I love my P38.

It rides great, is big without being too big, has solid axles front and rear, and is quite capable in stock gear. I chose my P38 over the Disco because I like the lines, the interior is more refined and I actually see the EAS (air suspension) as a positive, contrary to many others. Unfortunately, there isn't as much aftermarket support for the P38 when compared to the Disco, but there is enough.

I have been modifying my P38 for overlanding, not rock crawling. Like any Rover, you need to go over all the common problem areas and keep up with all maintenance. www.rangerovers.net will be your best friend as it has the most knowledge about range rovers anywhere on the web. It has an international following and anything that has gone wrong with these vehicles has been fixed by someone on the forum. There is also a whole set of main pages that has common problem areas and fixes. At first glance, it seems like a lot of issues, but read through them. I have owned BMWs and Audis and the list for them is just as long, if not longer.

Modifications to date:
Safety Devices roof rack (hard to come by, but the best mod)
Southdown front steering guard
LR front axle guard
Custom sliders from a guy on rangerovers.net
Larger tires (265/70R16s) with AT tires - Revo 2s
Custom rear storage with slider for ARB fridge
12v constant on accessory plug
CB

Next Mods:
Rear ladder
Rear diff guard
Rear gas tank guard
Gen III airsprings (gives yo 2 extra inches of lift)
Longer shocks
TrueTrac front and rear diff
Ham radio


P38s have dropped in price and good vehicles can be bought for $10K or less. But you need to know what to look for.

Here are a few links to give you a few things to check:
http://www.mez.co.uk/p38.html
http://www.rangerovers.net/rrbuying.htm

A few pics of mine at Death Valley:

 

[spikemd]

While in Death Valley on the Defense Mine trail, my P38 made it up while two lightly modified LR3s had to turn around. I think the main issue was due to clearance and that one owner didn't want to push the LR3 too much. One of the LR3s had springs, so couldn't raise up any higher. Another more modified LR3 made it no problem. My sliders and skid plates were put to the test and got a few scrapes. I actually got perched on my rear diff when some rocks shifted, but I was able to get out with some rock stacking. If I had a rear diff guard, I would have slid off it. We are looking at making one now.

As I mentioned, I see the EAS as an asset as you have the ability to raise and lower the vehicle with the push of a button. Since I still drive mine on the roads most of the time and the air springs give it a much better ride than coils. With the Gen III air springs, you can add more 2 inches of travel by just adjusting the settings of the bags. With the free software available now, you can adjust the computer anytime. In the past, if your EAS system had issues, replacing air springs were $600 a piece, a valve block $2k and the compressor $1500. Now, air springs are $100-200 each, rebuild kit for valve block $60 and compressor rebuild $60. Change out the o-rings and you have a brand-new system. It is not complicated and field serviceable. Changing an air spring can be a 15 minute job if you know what you are doing.

As far as the engine, I don't know why it gets a bad rap, it is the same engine in the disco, exactly.

The other issues that people complain about is the BECM or the do-everything-computer. It controls all the wiring for things like lights, signals, etc. If that goes bad, it can give you weird electrical gremlins. I don't hear issue with the later models.

Some quick buying advice:
Go with the newest model you can get, 1999 or newer. They went with the Bosch engine management (from BMW) which generally runs better.

1999 and newer has 4 wheel traction control, and the traction control is very good.

I prefer the SE over the HSE models as they had 16inch wheels rather that 18s and no navigation. The navigation and nav screen suck. There are more tire choices with 16s than 18s.

Most of the big electrical gremlins were worked out in the newer models.

Be sure the previous owner has maintenance records. Maintenance is essential to any rover.

Also, you will need to be handy yourself and be able to fix the little things yourself. This goes with any older rover purchase. If you need to take it to the dealer or a mechanic for everything, you will pay more than the truck is worth trying to fix everything. There is a wealth of knowledge out there. Read and get your hands dirty.

 

[spikemd]

some P38 FLEX

Some flex WITH the EAS suspension and Gen III airsprings for the extra 2 inches.
Pics from a guy in France in Corsica near France and Italy.

 

[Wander]

She's looking good Spike!

 

[Antichrist]

As I mentioned, I see the EAS as an asset as you have the ability to raise and lower the vehicle with the push of a button.

Personally I'd be very leery of taking a vehicle in to an area where I had to raise it to get through the terrain. If the EAS dies and you drop to the bump stops you could be in for serious trouble getting back out.
I'd at least make sure you have full underside protection in case you need to be dragged out, and over.

 

[AxeAngel]

As far as the engine, I don't know why it gets a bad rap, it is the same engine in the disco, exactly.

I read that the p38 has a better cooling system than the d2, can you confirm?

-Sam

 

[MattScott]

I've always wanted to love the P38; It's nice to know there are some work-arounds starting to become available!