Atl-atl is at it again, Ive added another truck to the fleet. 2024 Power Wagon inside!

Atl-atl

Adventurer
Awesome! No Thuren rear boogie bumpers or Thurn rear swaybar? I know a guy (me) who had to take his off when he put his camper on (replaced with airbags and Hellwig swaybar), who I bet would part with them ;)

Pretty much the same set-up I have, except with 2.0 Fox shock (planning to upgrade to the same as you), Carli HD balljoints, and no PSC hydro steering. I have not had an issue without the hydro steering, but I sure would like to drive one with it installed to feel the difference. I'm always looking to upgrade.

I am looking forward to it all coming together.

BTW-great photo layout
No boogie bumps yet, waiting to see how much weight Im going to carry around regularly and then Ill fine tune the rear a little. As for swaybar, Thuren does not make a rear swaybar that Im aware of. Maybe they used to make one?

I got the hydro assist installed last night. Pretty straightforward. I havent put a tire up against a curb to see how powerful it is but there was noticeable change when driving for sure. Steering wheel action is a little lighter(but not bad like a modern car with electric steering) and much more direct.

Going to start working on the suspension today.
 

Atl-atl

Adventurer
Well its been a couple extremely busy weeks so I havent had time to update until now. Thankfully a lot of the busyness was working on this truck. Suspension and hydro install is done and Ive got a couple hundred miles on the truck with the (extremely unbalanced) 40s. If anyone has suggestions for balancing the tires Im open. Was hoping to avoid beads but its looking like I will have to use them after 3 failed attempts at balancing the tires the "normal" way.

The Thuren rear track bar was more of a ********** to install that I thought it would be. Got it done eventually.
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The Synergy MFG brackets were relatively easy to install. Only problem was they didnt come with all the hardware that they should have. The trans crossmember bolts needed to be replaced, not reused as the instructions state. I contacted them about this and was essentially ignored. So I went out and bought 3 additional bolts that I was thankfully able to find locally since they are pretty obscure. Crappy feeling after spending nearly $1000 on some pretty basic metal brackets with a couple fancy billet washers. Im going to try to get someone on the phone so I can elaborate on this situation with them in hopes that they at least update their hardware.

I currently have them set in the 1.5" forward position(the other option is 1/2" forward) which is allowing me to run the 40s with zero trimming of the fender behind the tires. I did have to remove the entire front bumper and trim the fender liner in front to clear since the axle is pushed so far forward now. Whats cool is everything clears with the axle pushed this far forward. Tie rod/draglink/trackbar/hydro ram etc. At full droop and compression, at least that I was able to do with a floor jack and a forklift. The real world is obviously very different so hopefully I can get it out in the dirt soon. The front lower coil buckets are at a weird angle but they are in stock form and the coils appear to have less bow than a stock trucks so thats interesting. Having the radius arms dropped ~3" also helps keep the caster in check and will probably allow me to dial in extra caster to try correcting the coil bowing issues. Having hydro steer makes it so adding caster has no real negative effect. Though some internet engineers will probably disagree with this. Im a fan of running caster as high as possible to combat death wobble as well. If anyone is interested in more detailed pictures or info about the Synergy brackets please ask. There is not a lot of info out there and very few installs that Ive been able to find documented online.
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Next thing up was installing the Carli weld in coil spring isolator supports. These simply extend the upper coil bucket so you dont have to worry about popping a coil when flexing really hard. Simply stick them in place, weld them and paint them.
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I also installed the Thuren weld on lower shock mount supports. These trucks are known to blow up the stock lower front shock mounts when driven hard on 2.5" or bigger shocks and I dont go easy on vehicles so here we are. Simple install of weld and paint.
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I installed some Syndergy 2" front bump drops. but I dont know if Ill keep them. They dont hit the bump pad on the axle very well with the axle pushed 1.5" forward. I might have to fab something depending on what some flex tests result in. At a minimum I will have to reroute some of the brake line brackets on both sides to work with these bumps, or even the stock bumps.
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Had a scary moment when I was grinding the upper coil bucket/shock mount area to fit the shock reservoirs. I hit one of the hard brake lines with the grinder. It hasnt leaked but Im worried about it. Its one of the lines that comes off the ABS unit and its a single piece that goes all the way back to the rear axle. A quick recon says it will be a huge PITA to replace. I will likely do this for piece of mind. Be careful when installing shock reservoir mounts on the driver side of these trucks.
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Here is a pic of the inside/top of the track bar at the axle end. This is beyond full droop, there is no shock installed. You can see the spring is dangling. The track bar clears on all sides. All of the steering components clear as well which was a pleasant surprise. I was expecting to have to put the axle back into the 1/2" forward position.
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Here is almost everything back in place. The coil spring looks better than stock. It does scoot forward as the axle moves upward so I need to do some more testing to see if its going to be safe when fully flexed but for now it works great and drives well on road. It would be rad if someone made a completely new upper coil bucket/shock mount that worked with the axle pushed forward and fixed some of the coil bow. I havent looked too much but Im guessing it more work than would be worth it to try to cut and weld the lower bucket at a better angle. ****** was Dodge thinking with this design?
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Kingsize24

Well-known member
You may be able to use your lower adjustment to get some of that bow out, it looks too forward anyway, and the pinion will work best if the angles are in direct opposition to the transfer case angle. As for the balance, get you some balance masters. I'm using them on both my trucks with zero vibration issues. The wheels and tires need no weights at all.

Love what you have done so far, can't wait to see a pic of it sitting on the 40s.
 

Atl-atl

Adventurer
You may be able to use your lower adjustment to get some of that bow out, it looks too forward anyway, and the pinion will work best if the angles are in direct opposition to the transfer case angle. As for the balance, get you some balance masters. I'm using them on both my trucks with zero vibration issues. The wheels and tires need no weights at all.

Love what you have done so far, can't wait to see a pic of it sitting on the 40s.
Is the last pic the axle is at full droop so angles arent perfect. I havent had the truck aligned yet but will do so soon. As for the balance masters, Ive only done minimal research and what I have seen has been kind of 50/50. How much width did they add? Its essentially a plate that goes in between the wheel and hub like a spacer correct?
 

Kingsize24

Well-known member
Is the last pic the axle is at full droop so angles arent perfect. I havent had the truck aligned yet but will do so soon. As for the balance masters, Ive only done minimal research and what I have seen has been kind of 50/50. How much width did they add? Its essentially a plate that goes in between the wheel and hub like a spacer correct?

An alignment will not help you with that bow or the pinion angle, and likelihood is, they will not even understand what to do or even care about your angles. You can easily adjust them yourself to get pinion as close to perfect as possible during the travel, and get out most of that bow prior to alignment so that minimum adjustments will be needed.

As for the balance master's, no it's not a spacer. It just a small steel sheet that's between the hub an the wheel. It's probably a 32nd thickness, maybe more, but I don't believe it's a 16th. And I think they work very well. Good luck to you no matter what you decide. It's looking great.
 

Atl-atl

Adventurer
Part 2 of the suspension install is here. I installed a Rough Country spare tire carrier so I can run a full size spare. It was $200 plus a couple bucks to run some allthread for extra support. I think it turned out great. I used 1/2" stainless threaded rod that I bolted to the front of the bed rail and then ran the rod through an extra lug nut which I then threaded a nut onto. Seems to be holding up great so far.
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Next up was taking care of the rear most skid plate crossmember. With the new suspension the rear axle droops so far that the driveshaft will hit the crossmember. Carli sells a drop kit for the skid plate but the last thing Im going to do is lift a truck and then defeat the purpose of a lift by lowering the skid plates. So I got to cutting and welding. I cut out a 6" wide section of the center of the crossmember, scooted the cut section forward 3", welded it back together with some extra square tubing and slapped some paint on er. Just like that I gained about 2" of clearance under the driveshaft.
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The only other modification that was needed was shortening one of the fore-aft skid "bars" Ill call it. These are hollow tubing so I trimmed the length by 3" and used a press to flatten the new end of the bar. Drilled some holes, ground it smooth and paint finished it.
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End result looks great. We will see how it holds up offroad.
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Thats it for now. Im still waiting on my new front bumper before I can do much else. Now its time to get an alignment and put some miles on the truck.

Swaybar is still connected in this video!

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Atl-atl

Adventurer
An alignment will not help you with that bow or the pinion angle, and likelihood is, they will not even understand what to do or even care about your angles. You can easily adjust them yourself to get pinion as close to perfect as possible during the travel, and get out most of that bow prior to alignment so that minimum adjustments will be needed.

As for the balance master's, no it's not a spacer. It just a small steel sheet that's between the hub an the wheel. It's probably a 32nd thickness, maybe more, but I don't believe it's a 16th. And I think they work very well. Good luck to you no matter what you decide. It's looking great.
As far as Ive always known caster is an adjustment that happens during an alignment so Im not really sure what you mean. If I ask them to max out the caster during the alignment then the alignment will help with the angles. I guess I could just max out the caster myself like you suggest but why not have the tech doing the alignment do that so it matches on both sides and I have proof of it from their printout of the alignment specs?
 

Kingsize24

Well-known member
As far as Ive always known caster is an adjustment that happens during an alignment so Im not really sure what you mean. If I ask them to max out the caster during the alignment then the alignment will help with the angles. I guess I could just max out the caster myself like you suggest but why not have the tech doing the alignment do that so it matches on both sides and I have proof of it from their printout of the alignment specs?

Yes that's also fine as well. I personally just like to verify that and pinion angle. If I can get it less than 2 or 3 degrees of difference between it and the transfer case, then I can balance everything. The caster angle, the spring bow, which seems to always be on these Rams, and the pinion angle. It's all a balance. That's really all I was getting at.
 

Kingsize24

Well-known member
Part 2 of the suspension install is here. I installed a Rough Country spare tire carrier so I can run a full size spare. It was $200 plus a couple bucks to run some allthread for extra support. I think it turned out great. I used 1/2" stainless threaded rod that I bolted to the front of the bed rail and then ran the rod through an extra lug nut which I then threaded a nut onto. Seems to be holding up great so far.
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Next up was taking care of the rear most skid plate crossmember. With the new suspension the rear axle droops so far that the driveshaft will hit the crossmember. Carli sells a drop kit for the skid plate but the last thing Im going to do is lift a truck and then defeat the purpose of a lift by lowering the skid plates. So I got to cutting and welding. I cut out a 6" wide section of the center of the crossmember, scooted the cut section forward 3", welded it back together with some extra square tubing and slapped some paint on er. Just like that I gained about 2" of clearance under the driveshaft.
View attachment 867273
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The only other modification that was needed was shortening one of the fore-aft skid "bars" Ill call it. These are hollow tubing so I trimmed the length by 3" and used a press to flatten the new end of the bar. Drilled some holes, ground it smooth and paint finished it.
View attachment 867282

End result looks great. We will see how it holds up offroad.
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Thats it for now. Im still waiting on my new front bumper before I can do much else. Now its time to get an alignment and put some miles on the truck.

Swaybar is still connected in this video!

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Dude! It looks amazing man!

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Atl-atl

Adventurer
Yes that's also fine as well. I personally just like to verify that and pinion angle. If I can get it less than 2 or 3 degrees of difference between it and the transfer case, then I can balance everything. The caster angle, the spring bow, which seems to always be on these Rams, and the pinion angle. It's all a balance. That's really all I was getting at.
I see what you're saying. Just cranking the caster does not necessarily give you the optimal pinion angle. Ill probably mess with it myself since the cams seem pretty accessible and easy to adjust.
 

brokenfoot

New member
@Atl-atl

Give these a shot instead of the beads. https://www.cjcoffroad.com/collections/centramatic-wheel-balancers

I have a set of 4 balance masters on my F250 with 37s and haven't had any shakes yet. I absolutely hate unbalanced wheels/tires and found with my Tacoma, I would be going multiple times a year to get them re-balanced

Balancing beads have this awful tendency to accumulate on the sidewall when on curvy roads and unbalance themself. I heavily considered them until I saw a youtube video from a guy who tried balancing beads 3 different ways and they always would accumulate and unbalance when he was on curvy backroads.

Balance master vs centramatic - Balance master users mercury (so its completely quiet), centramatic uses metal beads (not quiet).
 

Kingsize24

Well-known member
@Atl-atl

Give these a shot instead of the beads. https://www.cjcoffroad.com/collections/centramatic-wheel-balancers

I have a set of 4 balance masters on my F250 with 37s and haven't had any shakes yet. I absolutely hate unbalanced wheels/tires and found with my Tacoma, I would be going multiple times a year to get them re-balanced

Balancing beads have this awful tendency to accumulate on the sidewall when on curvy roads and unbalance themself. I heavily considered them until I saw a youtube video from a guy who tried balancing beads 3 different ways and they always would accumulate and unbalance when he was on curvy backroads.

Balance master vs centramatic - Balance master users mercury (so its completely quiet), centramatic uses metal beads (not quiet).

Agreed. That's really the only difference I've ever known as well. They both functionally are the same.

Also, sweet suspension setup! I looked through the install photos, did you end up needing bumpstop spacers or extensions to limit the uptravel? Or can powerwagons stuff 40s stock :oops:

If you measure to the upper wheel arch and take into account the up travel with a stock bump stop, even without the spacer, it's around 1 inch you can still go up on a 40's, depending on tire. The key is getting the axle far enough forward without binding the track bar. That keeps it off the fender at the rear of the tire, but then forces you into a custom front bumper. Thuren or similar, and trimming the inner plastic fender wells. It's all that's honestly needed. And yes they will swallow them.
 

Atl-atl

Adventurer
@Atl-atl

Give these a shot instead of the beads. https://www.cjcoffroad.com/collections/centramatic-wheel-balancers

I have a set of 4 balance masters on my F250 with 37s and haven't had any shakes yet. I absolutely hate unbalanced wheels/tires and found with my Tacoma, I would be going multiple times a year to get them re-balanced

Balancing beads have this awful tendency to accumulate on the sidewall when on curvy roads and unbalance themself. I heavily considered them until I saw a youtube video from a guy who tried balancing beads 3 different ways and they always would accumulate and unbalance when he was on curvy backroads.

Balance master vs centramatic - Balance master users mercury (so its completely quiet), centramatic uses metal beads (not quiet).

Also, sweet suspension setup! I looked through the install photos, did you end up needing bumpstop spacers or extensions to limit the uptravel? Or can powerwagons stuff 40s stock :oops:

Agreed. That's really the only difference I've ever known as well. They both functionally are the same.



If you measure to the upper wheel arch and take into account the up travel with a stock bump stop, even without the spacer, it's around 1 inch you can still go up on a 40's, depending on tire. The key is getting the axle far enough forward without binding the track bar. That keeps it off the fender at the rear of the tire, but then forces you into a custom front bumper. Thuren or similar, and trimming the inner plastic fender wells. It's all that's honestly needed. And yes they will swallow them.
I wound up ordering the Balance Masters from CJC this morning so we shall see how that goes. As for bump stops. I added 2" drops in the front but I dont think those are going to work. The axle is pushed so far forward that the bumps barely contact the bump pad on the axle at full stuff. Im going to have to make custom drops that also offset the bumps so they contact the axle pad. As for how well a 40 will stuff, I just dont know yet. I need to get my new front bumper and then get out and flex the suspension to see just what is needed. Im planning to do a pretty deep trim behind the front tires. Enough so I can run the axle in the 1/2" forward position if I want to. Im still brainstorming that project though.
 

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