BIG TRUCK - little budget

[charlieaarons]

You won't get a camper with all the odds and ends and fuel, water, camper batteries, tools and spare parts withing the 1.5 metric ton envelope you have. In my opinion.
I went from 6.2 (metric) tons for cab/chassis to 9.9 with dry camper + generator + rear winch and bullbar to ~12.7 completely full/loaded + front winch.

Charlie

 

[RoosterBooster]

You won't get a camper with all the odds and ends and fuel, water, camper batteries, tools and spare parts withing the 1.5 metric ton envelope you have. In my opinion.
I went from 6.2 (metric) tons for cab/chassis to 9.9 with dry camper + generator + rear winch and bullbar to ~12.7 completely full/loaded + front winch.

Charlie

if i`m not mistaken his weight claim is with the steel bed, steel sides, steel toolboxes , etc ...?!?

i think if he puts that truck on a strict diet (=aluminum) he could already shed a lot of weight.
if this rig would be in the States the first thing i would do is convert to SRW, get rid of the steel rims and switch to forged aluminum. (cheap if 10 lug bolt pattern is compatible)
then i would remove everything that is not absolutely needed and shorten the WB by ~2-4 feet as well as the rear overhang by ~1-2 feet
next would be the steel fuel tank(s) (if it is steel ? ... i could not see it in the pics) ; a round aluminum tank is not very space efficient but extremly lightweight
(i would search for a Peterbilt tank with lightweight forged aluminum hangers )
...etc...

if he strictly avoids hanging the truck full of nonsense gadgets , stays clear of "redneck engineering" (aka using big fat angle iron to mount tanks, etc) and is using a light composite box i think it could be possible

 

[apexcamper]

@charlieaarons
You are right, it will be a lot to squeeze in to a narrow window, but RoosterBooster hit the nail on the head with how I "HOPE" things will work.

My bed is ALL steel, and weights quite a bit. The head board of the bed alone probably weights several hundred pounds. I will be dumping all that down to the sub-frame. I am toying with the idea of actually keeping the subframe itself simply because it is IS the manufacturer specs. Once I get the bed off, I will weight it and post that, see where we stand.

Unlike the very capable Unimog, where it is highly likely that the truck gets into a need for front and rear winches, this truck is being built as a RV for nasty roads, dirt roads, and to stand up to extended driving in third world countries. Tougher than the average RV, absolutely, but blazing a trail through the wilderness...not this one.

I will want a moderate bull bar in the event of an animal strike, but will be keeping the "expedition bling" very low. This may mean having to avoid certain places that I want to get to because of the conditions, we will see. IMHO if there was one "right" answer as far as truck type or size, everyone would have it.

The weight will be close, but deffinately a goal to shoot for.

 

[apexcamper]

Since we are almost talking about this, I took some shots of the frame and subframe for posting. I would love some input as to wether or not keeping the subframe would be worth it over replacing with aluminum or dumping it all together.

The subframe squares off at the rear of the vehicle, even with the main frame

The small box in the subframe on the right is a military pintle tow bar about 3 meters long, and it will be gone. The bed is squarely bolted to the subframe here, and the subframe is squarely bolted to the main frame.

Midway up the bed from the rear, subframe still bolted squarely to the main frame, but the bed is bolted to the subframe with a small flex joint. Doesn't look like it would flex very much.

Up closer to the front of the bed near the cab, you can see the subframe is bolted here with what I am only guessing is some kind of break-away mount. The bed itself is attatched to the subframe just forward of this with a large flex mount (my divorced T-case is just visible bottom of photo).

Here is the large flex mount for the bed attatchment to the subframe, there is also another break-away mount for the subframe forward of that.

If you look past the air tanks, or the opposite side frame rail, you can see how the subframe terminates in a slope, I assume to allow the subframe some flex on the end to prevent stress points on the main frame. Top center you can also see the springs for the suspension cab.

To save wieght, I have considered removing the center section of the subframe with the same bevel cuts as at the front, leaving a section at the front and rear for mounting the box.
I just dont know if having the full length subframe is nessecary or overkill (a little overkill is not bad) or if an aluminum subframe would even be as strong.

 

[Victorian]

Be careful if you want to drive that truck in Germany... Bullbars are against the law and you will get pulled over!

 

[apexcamper]

@Victorian
WOW!?! That is good to know about the bull bars. I had no idea. I have seen expedition trucks from Unicat and the like with quite elaborate front end protection. Do you know what Germany does and does not allow specifically?
I definitely don't want to roll out of the shop and get a ticket on the maiden trip...that's just a bad omen.

Maybe I miss spoke, I guess I was referring to a grill guard, more like this-

 

[Victorian]

There may be a loophole... But not 100% sure... Better talk to a local TUEV station and get the facts as I life in Canada now and got that info from other internet sources!

 

[naterry]

I don't think those are break-away joints. Look close at the bracket that the flex joints bolt to. It looks like they bolt to a saddle that cups the top of the member that is sistered to your frame.

 

[apexcamper]

@Victorian
Thanx for the heads up, I started looking at other pictures I took at other shows, there is common "no guard" theme, so it is deffinately something I will be researching.

@naterry
I wish I could speak more intelligently about what I was looking at. I clearly get the bolts with springs, that allows a little separation due to flex. What I dont understand is the subframe to frame joints that look like bolts with too many washers. It appears to have no flex, but would fail before doing damage to the main frame...thoughts?
Is this how one should attatch a subframe...like a shear pin designed to fail before doing structural damamge.

My cab is attatched at the front of the frame by a large hinge and sits on springs mounted at the back of the cab, allowing for some suspension (and it's nice).

My idea for mounting the camper box on the truck is much the same. The floor frame of the box would be mounted to a pivot and the rear of the box will be suspended 2/3rd of the way back and at the very back by suspension air bags. I have never seen it done like that before, but the air bags are more than rated for the weight and it should really absorb alot of washboard vibration.

 

[mervifwdc]

Hi, Congratulations! Looks like a superb truck? - I'm envious on the length and capacity you will have.

As to the bolts with too many washers - you may find some things that are not correct, maybe installed by a person in a hurry, or who did not have the correct items such as springs. If the springs broke, and you only drove on the road, you might put in washers.....

It will be important to make sure it can handle the flex ok, it would be a shame to see cracks in the camper body after a few months. Maybe a good idea is to tie 2 lenghts of string, very tight, one from the front left corner to the back right corner, and the second one from the front right corner to the back left. If everything is "true" and level, then the 2 pieces of string will gently touch in the centre of the truck bed. Then take it to somewhere that will force in some flex - drive on bumpy / twisty ground. If you watch where the 2 strings intersect, you will see if the body flexes and by how much. Also stop where the ground demands maximum flex and also see if the springs are flexing, and by how much. It's much easier to test that now than half way through a build project....

Your idea for mounting the camper box is interesting!

Are you planning a way through to the rear box from the driving compartment? Getting some kind of seal that is flexible is the tricky thing. The guy that built ours did it with some plastic coated canvas type material, usually used for the sides of 40' curtain sided trucks. it's ugly, but seems to work well. Depending on where you put your pivot, you'll have more or less flex to deal with at the rear of the cab.

Merv.

 

[RoosterBooster]

apex

owww, there is a lot of steel in that bed :Wow1:

IMHO i`m not very impressed with the construction (i`m a swiss native ... so "german engineering" never impressed me much ...j/k lol )
i personally would not reuse it ; the steel to steel contact will transmit a lot of harshness and noise ... the tolerance to frame flex looks questionable
some bed crossmembers look already bend around the mounting points and i think there is also a crack visible ?!?.
maybe springs got replaced with washers ?!?

your mounting idea is exactly how i mounted the (extended) sleeper on my Peterbilt conversion... it rides amazing well and the isolation from the frame is superb.
but be warned; its complex and there is a huge amount of labor and material needed to make it work (it is definitely not KISS ... so its maybe not something you want to have on a Expo truck)


btw
link to Unigrip "pass-through" accordion seals ; http://www.uni-grip.com/accordion_seals_page.html

 

[apexcamper]

@mervifwdc
Love the string idea, I'll take pics of that. The airbag system is to allow the frame to flex under the camper box.

@RoosterBooster
I pray you mean a crack in the bed frame...since that is all trash (being removed and recycled, so the tree huggers can relax). If you saw something different, I would greatly appreciate more detail.
I am kinda settled on about 4 feet of subframe at the front near the cab just to spread the load of the front camper box hinge mount, and then airbag mounts bolted to the frame around the rear suspension mounts for the rear axle.
I NEED HELP HERE!
In my mind (a very scary place) this is as simple as a airbag mount shelf on the frame, and airbag mount on the camper box frame, and a compressor to keep them aired...am I missing something? I get that power lines and hoses and such will need to be run through the hinge area and not the tail of the box.

 

[RoosterBooster]

what (i think) i spotted is only a bedframe crack ...

this thread is very informative;
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/25494-pivoting-frames-and-mounting-campers/page30
however, some of the frame mounting solutions are having the box ride way too high over the frame for my taste ... to be honest most of the expo trucks i see are waaay too tall for my taste ... and whats up with all the stuff mounted so frigging high (like AC`s, jerry cans and spare tires ).... ok, i better stop ranting ...i guess i`m kinda obsessed with keeping a low CofG .

as i posted in that thread the challenge with air ride is to control (and limit) the motion.

 

[naterry]

@naterry
I wish I could speak more intelligently about what I was looking at. I clearly get the bolts with springs, that allows a little separation due to flex. What I dont understand is the subframe to frame joints that look like bolts with too many washers. It appears to have no flex, but would fail before doing damage to the main frame...thoughts?
Is this how one should attatch a subframe...like a shear pin designed to fail before doing structural damamge.

I get what you're saying. What I *think* (just guessing right), is that the member you are referring to as the subframe stays, and the members above it flex. Check out the attached pics. The upside-down saddle cupping the top of the subframe does not look welded on in the pics you attached, and without a better idea of the rest of the frame that is all I can assume. Plus, those definitely aren't breakaway bolts. Breakaway bolts are typically used in tension, and have a neck down in the diameter.

 

[desertrover]

This is going to be a great build! However, like others have said, 1.5T isn't much to work with for a camper. I'm limited to about the same weight, although due to chassis rather than legal restrictions. It's amazing how fast weight adds up! One place I think it's worth spending some weight, however, is the house battery bank. You mentioned a 12v coffee pot.. I've had horrible luck with the things, and I'm also trying to get rid of as much 12v stuff as possible as not to run dual systems. I ended up just using a 110v coffee pot. I'm still stuck with a 12v converter for my water pump and CB though.
-CJ