Buying & Building a Medium Ambulance into an RV – The FAM-BULANCE
- Thread starter rlrenz
- Start date
patoz
Expedition Leader
I thought about using my O2 compartment (# 1) for propane also, but it's pretty narrow. I didn't realize until your post now, that you can get cylinders that size. And since my generator is going in compartment # 2 right next to it, that will work out for me also.
I'll have to check the height of the compartment, but I may have to add a heavy duty shelf and stack the cylinders (if that's even feasible).
I'll have to check the height of the compartment, but I may have to add a heavy duty shelf and stack the cylinders (if that's even feasible).
rlrenz
Explorer
More progress today - my electrical control relays are located on a swing-down panel installed directly above the side entry door. To open the panel, two lever operated latches have to be released, then two safety catches, and then the panel can swing down. You can see the panel on the top right of the next photo.
Once it's down, there is a whole bunch of "Gee Whiz..." to admire. I've been tunneling through the electrical system so I can understand what I have, and I am continually impressed by the system. A large portion of the panel is taken up by Wired-Rite load management circuit boards. I've been working with Wired-Rite to understand what they do, and they are downright fascinating. One of the panels is equipped for automatic load management so if the battery voltage drops below about 12.5 volts with the engine running, it will shed some loads (example: the IV bag heater), and automatically engage the auto throttle whenever the ambulance is in neutral and the parking brake is applied. The panels are equipped with circuit breakers and load relays, and are designed to be controlled by either applying a positive, or a negative voltage to an input. Multiple events are controlled by using diodes to cause one event to activate multiple relays. This is old school, but it is simple to work with and easy to repair if necessary.
The larger heat sinks at the bottom of the drop down panel are also for load isolation, but for higher amperage loads.
One tremendous advantage of working with ambulance wiring is that the individual cables and wires are all marked throughout their length with the circuit designation, such as "curb dome lts" or "exh fan". I'm gradually tunneling through the wiring so I can generate a physical map of where things are on the panels. Some of the research is straightforward and can be easily demonstrated, such as flipping a panel switch, then looking for which LED lights up on the panel, but others can drive you nuts trying to figure out - but that's what makes it all fun for me.
Once it's down, there is a whole bunch of "Gee Whiz..." to admire. I've been tunneling through the electrical system so I can understand what I have, and I am continually impressed by the system. A large portion of the panel is taken up by Wired-Rite load management circuit boards. I've been working with Wired-Rite to understand what they do, and they are downright fascinating. One of the panels is equipped for automatic load management so if the battery voltage drops below about 12.5 volts with the engine running, it will shed some loads (example: the IV bag heater), and automatically engage the auto throttle whenever the ambulance is in neutral and the parking brake is applied. The panels are equipped with circuit breakers and load relays, and are designed to be controlled by either applying a positive, or a negative voltage to an input. Multiple events are controlled by using diodes to cause one event to activate multiple relays. This is old school, but it is simple to work with and easy to repair if necessary.
The larger heat sinks at the bottom of the drop down panel are also for load isolation, but for higher amperage loads.
One tremendous advantage of working with ambulance wiring is that the individual cables and wires are all marked throughout their length with the circuit designation, such as "curb dome lts" or "exh fan". I'm gradually tunneling through the wiring so I can generate a physical map of where things are on the panels. Some of the research is straightforward and can be easily demonstrated, such as flipping a panel switch, then looking for which LED lights up on the panel, but others can drive you nuts trying to figure out - but that's what makes it all fun for me.
rlrenz
Explorer
I decided that each propane cylinder will have its own regulator and shut off valve so changing out one cylinder won't shut down everything. There may also be a hinged shelf over the propane cylinders as well. The existing heating ducts into the cabinet will be blanked off with 1/8" aluminum and sealed with some Silicone caulk, and another vent will be added to the cabinet. The vent will be located low on the cabinet (since propane is heavier than air), and will either be another Perko marine vent like the existing O2 cabinet vent, or else a louvered panel. After a bit of internet searching, I found Rod Louvers (http://rodlouvers.com/Aluminum-Standard-Louvered-Panels-C184230.aspx?sid=17127) - I'm planning on using their aluminum louvers on the generator cabinet, and may also use them on the propane cabinet.
Does anyone know of any other louver suppliers out there that I should look at?
Does anyone know of any other louver suppliers out there that I should look at?
guidolyons
Addicted to Gear Oil
Check boating/marine vents/louvers. I got some nice stainless steel vents from Jamestown Distributors. Lots of different styles and sizes.
Wide variety of sizes and style, usually from stainless steel (or plastic or aluminium). And much cheaper than automotive specialty vents. I'm running 5 louver stainless marine hood vents from Jamestown Distributors.
They are ~ 4"x12" $22.19 ea. WHI-S-1391P Whitecap Stainless Steel Louvered Vents Also sold as Seafarer/Seafit brand.
All kinds of louvers and vents: http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...uvered vent&resultPref=all&page=GRID&history=
http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...e=Sea-Dog+Stainless+Steel+Flat+Louvered+Vents
15 louver 5x9 for $11.79 in stainless SDG-331410-1 (the pic is the smaller 3 louver vent)
java
Expedition Leader
Definately look at marine stuff. Fisheries supply is across the street from my office.... Very dangerous.... I ended up setting up an account when I was building my trailer.
Bernard_Roofus
"Jackaroo of all trades"
I purchased all of my electrical system, vents and hardware from marinepartsource.com, very easy to deal with, huge inventory. Every time I went to their website I was like a kid filling out my Christmas list.
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rlrenz
Explorer
Being retired is both good and bad news--- I squeak and creak when I move, and I never get down on the floor without having figured out how I'm going to get up - but I have time during the day to search out parts and supplies that the ambulance will need. That happened to me today.
I figured out a long time ago that I will want hot water as well as cold water in the ambulance. I could use an RV water heater, except they are probably also built to the extremely high standards we've all seen in RVs. Whilst prowling through E-BAY this morning, I figured I'd see what was available in marine water heaters. I saw many heaters, all with prices about $350 or so for basic heaters, and higher for stainless construction - but then I saw an offering for a 4.2 gallon Quick marine water heater for $150 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/231382446172?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT) . I did some digging, and Quick is an Italian company that builds for offshore boaters (http://www.quicknauticalequipment.com/?lng=en&cs1=01&ms1=2&ms2=5&ctm=230). The heater is built from 316 stainless, so it should survive nicely in my environment. Download their catalog for all the details.
The heater is set up for 110 VAC with a 1200 watt element, however the heater is also available with a 600 watt 120 volt element (though not with this E-BAY offering), so I'll check into getting one either from them or from someone else so the heater will run from the Vanner inverter). If necessary, the heater is small enough that I could also run the Onan generator if I needed to heat some water.
It will be delivered next week.
I figured out a long time ago that I will want hot water as well as cold water in the ambulance. I could use an RV water heater, except they are probably also built to the extremely high standards we've all seen in RVs. Whilst prowling through E-BAY this morning, I figured I'd see what was available in marine water heaters. I saw many heaters, all with prices about $350 or so for basic heaters, and higher for stainless construction - but then I saw an offering for a 4.2 gallon Quick marine water heater for $150 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/231382446172?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT) . I did some digging, and Quick is an Italian company that builds for offshore boaters (http://www.quicknauticalequipment.com/?lng=en&cs1=01&ms1=2&ms2=5&ctm=230). The heater is built from 316 stainless, so it should survive nicely in my environment. Download their catalog for all the details.
The heater is set up for 110 VAC with a 1200 watt element, however the heater is also available with a 600 watt 120 volt element (though not with this E-BAY offering), so I'll check into getting one either from them or from someone else so the heater will run from the Vanner inverter). If necessary, the heater is small enough that I could also run the Onan generator if I needed to heat some water.
It will be delivered next week.
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rlrenz
Explorer
I just looked at their web site -- a VERY interesting place. Unlike a kid with a Christmas list, we know who's gonna get the bill.....
rlrenz
Explorer
Looking at the math, and assuming the standard 1200 watt element, it looks like it would take about 20 minutes to heat 4.2 gallons of water 40 degrees Fahrenheit. If your on-board water supply is sitting at 80 Fahrenheit in the tank, you could enjoy a very quick 120 degree shower.
patoz
Expedition Leader
Hmm, so I guess that size would be more for a sink rather than a shower. I've been looking at the various endless hot water devices that run on propane to supply an outside shower since I have no room for one inside. But I can see a great advantage for that also, especially if you are plugged into shore power or running on generator.
Back in the '80s when I was big into off-road 4x4 truck camping, I took a marine heat exchanger and mounted it under the hood inline with my vehicle heater hose, with the radiator water flowing through the larger tubes. Then, I plumbed the smaller tubes to the rear of the vehicle and connected one side to a 12VDC SureFlow 4.2gpm pump with the pressure demand electric valve. This became the intake side of the system. The other side became the discharge side and was connected to a handheld shower sprayer with a on-off valve. With this setup, the pump only pumps cold water and not hot which will damage the pump itself.
When you wanted to take a hot shower (and I do mean HOT), you just dropped an intake hose into a bucket of water, stream, river, etc. and cranked up the truck. In a few minutes when the engine warmed up, the water flowing through the exchanger from the pump would be plenty hot to shower with even in the winter time. With the older vehicles, we found you could change the water temperature somewhat by turning the vehicle heater on, and using the temperature slide control, which would determine how much radiator water flowed through the heat exchanger.
Eventually, we found the best way to get and set the water temperature was to use a 6 gal plastic water can full of water, and keep recirculating the water through the system and back into the can until you reached the temperature you wanted. This usually only took about five minutes. Then shut the engine off and pump out of the can to take your shower. I built a nice looking control panel and mounted it under my rear bumper, next to the receiver hitch. The panel had a power switch and pilot light for the pump, and intake and discharge 'quick connect fittings' using 3/8" pressure washer fittings.
We would be camping on a sandbar on a river and freak out the canoe and kayakers when they would float by and see us taking a leisurely shower or washing our trucks off with an endless water supply. It was nice for washing dishes also.
Back in the '80s when I was big into off-road 4x4 truck camping, I took a marine heat exchanger and mounted it under the hood inline with my vehicle heater hose, with the radiator water flowing through the larger tubes. Then, I plumbed the smaller tubes to the rear of the vehicle and connected one side to a 12VDC SureFlow 4.2gpm pump with the pressure demand electric valve. This became the intake side of the system. The other side became the discharge side and was connected to a handheld shower sprayer with a on-off valve. With this setup, the pump only pumps cold water and not hot which will damage the pump itself.
When you wanted to take a hot shower (and I do mean HOT), you just dropped an intake hose into a bucket of water, stream, river, etc. and cranked up the truck. In a few minutes when the engine warmed up, the water flowing through the exchanger from the pump would be plenty hot to shower with even in the winter time. With the older vehicles, we found you could change the water temperature somewhat by turning the vehicle heater on, and using the temperature slide control, which would determine how much radiator water flowed through the heat exchanger.
Eventually, we found the best way to get and set the water temperature was to use a 6 gal plastic water can full of water, and keep recirculating the water through the system and back into the can until you reached the temperature you wanted. This usually only took about five minutes. Then shut the engine off and pump out of the can to take your shower. I built a nice looking control panel and mounted it under my rear bumper, next to the receiver hitch. The panel had a power switch and pilot light for the pump, and intake and discharge 'quick connect fittings' using 3/8" pressure washer fittings.
We would be camping on a sandbar on a river and freak out the canoe and kayakers when they would float by and see us taking a leisurely shower or washing our trucks off with an endless water supply. It was nice for washing dishes also.
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rlrenz
Explorer
Good idea. I had thought about using the on-board water supply to feed a marine water heater - the kind with a built-in heat exchanger so the engine cooling water would also heat the domestic hot water, but I didn't want to change any of the existing cab / module heating system around, particularly with an existing heater circulating pump to figure into the equation. For what I plan, an electric heater will do the job, but I really like your system - an endless supply of hot water sounds great!
patoz
Expedition Leader
Since I'm building a trailer out of mine I won't have an engine to heat any water, so I'll have to go electric or LPG. However, I will be putting that system back on my current F250 tow vehicle, which will be with the trailer anyway. I'm tempted to go ahead and order one of the 4.2 gal. ones on eBay just for my sink inside. I know you'll probably test yours as soon as you get it, so please post the results and let us know how well it works.
If I had room for an indoor shower, you can bet I would have that heat exchanger system plumbed from the truck to the trailer via an 'umbilical cord' type setup, at least as a backup.
This is where I'm at with mine...
I'm concentrating on the outside right now, so the research you're doing is really helping me out because I'm using all marine quality components on mine also.
If I had room for an indoor shower, you can bet I would have that heat exchanger system plumbed from the truck to the trailer via an 'umbilical cord' type setup, at least as a backup.
This is where I'm at with mine...
I'm concentrating on the outside right now, so the research you're doing is really helping me out because I'm using all marine quality components on mine also.
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