Camping with a weapon

[xtatik]

This is a much better video of a bear charge. Notice how long it takes from when it starts running at the photographer until the warning shot. The telephoto lens makes the distance look much shorter than it is, and harder to properly judge.

Well, it certainly is a video of a bear charge.....Whew!. Photographer was way too close in that case. If the bear were more preoccupied she might have been ok. But, but sneaking up on a foraging sow and cub is just bad manners. Especially, when they're cruising a meadow at less than a hundred yards away. If he'd have approached from upwind to alert her she might have allowed that distance...but stalking her would most definitely startle her and piss her off. If you notice the first thing she does is run toward and re-connect with her cub, then she continues on toward the nuklhed. In this case, I would doubt him seriously if he told me he was "firing for affect"...I think he filled his drawers and missed.
But, this footage doesn't lend anything to my earlier post:coffeedrink:. As was well noted and disclaimed in my post...I was specifically addressing Black Bear behavior and comments made in the thread regarding fears of encountering them. The general public has always had a tough time discerning bears and bear behavor. The word "bears" ends up being used generically to conjure a menacing presence in the wilderness.
Overwhelmingly, the Black Bear is more commonly encountered in North America. They can usually be turned away with a shout or by simply throwing rocks.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ManagingBears#p/u/0/KOTllRpPRjY

Or, a slingshot seems to work as well.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ManagingBears#p/u/3/c6Fwu3ckigg

 

[bobDog]

You can almost read the bears face....Holy crap! that's a gun!:sombrero:

 

[LACamper]

One serious question for the non-gun crowd.

If you had a chance to hike/explore S. Africa/Congo/Kenya,etc. would you bring a gun? We're talking no police areas, no cell phones, cape buffalo, hyenas, lions, etc... or do you still feel like you don't need one there?

BTW, I'd rather hand feed a wild grizzly covered in steak juice than get within 50 feet of a cape buffalo unarmed!

 

[ObGobOobaleeney]

One serious question for the non-gun crowd.

If you had a chance to hike/explore S. Africa/Congo/Kenya,etc. would you bring a gun? We're talking no police areas, no cell phones, cape buffalo, hyenas, lions, etc... or do you still feel like you don't need one there?

you gotta be joking. You're actually asking? Gun? I wouldn't go without a heavily armed guide who has killed some of the aforementioned. Only a fool or a fresh meal steps back into the food chain without a gun.:Wow1:

 

[LACamper]

No, I am serious. I'm wondering if the anti-gun side of this group is just saying they don't feel they need one in the US or if they woudn't carry a gun anywhere.

And believe me, if it were me on that trip I'd be looking for a way to cut down a Barrett to 16"!

 

[ObGobOobaleeney]

This woman is obviously very experienced with them and stood her ground to show what is the whole story and the routine outcome to these videos..

YouTube - A Bluff Charge by a Black Bear - NOT A BLACK BEAR ATTACK

That lady is an idiot. By her ignorant actions she is a.) setting a dangerous example b.) assuming wild animals are totally predictable c.) conditioning that bear to be less afraid of humans. I look forward to reading her mauling obit.

 

[ObGobOobaleeney]

No, I am serious. I'm wondering if the anti-gun side of this group is just saying they don't feel they need one in the US or if they woudn't carry a gun anywhere.

And believe me, if it were me on that trip I'd be looking for a way to cut down a Barrett to 16"!

Yeah, I hear ya. I was having fun with the idea that anybody at all could answer that any other way. :Wow1:

I guess my sick joke would be "if they want to go to Africa without a gun, let 'em. Darwinism needs to work its course. And animals gotta eat, too." :chowtime:

 

[PirateMcGee]

the video of the "bluff" charge by the black bear was somewhat ridiculous.......there is a big difference between the "charge" that she showed by a well fed and obivously people habituated animal vs. a wild underfed bear's bluff charge. Do Black bears bluff charge, absolutely, do they often get killed because of this also likely. That lady is a moron for getting that close to a wild animal and purposely adgatating it.

I just wanted to say in my encounter with that particular black bear the initial charge was not a bluff charge as it was flat out sprinting down hill after my dog. After we yelled and attempted to scare it off, the bear ran off, then turned back around, stood up and full bore charged us open mouth and grunting. It stopped less than 10ft short and then sauntered off, was this a bluff charge, probably but if it hadn't been we all would've been screwed and I much rather would have like to fire a warning shot when I had very first seen the bear after my dog than to hope that it would simply bluff charge me. Keep in mind this bear followed us for over 2 miles and continued to follow us after the charge. BTW I also carry spray now and would have used it on that particular bear in that particular situation. A gun would have initially been used to scare the animal off and would have been deployed if spray failed.

 

[xtatik]

the video of the "bluff" charge by the black bear was somewhat ridiculous.......there is a big difference between the "charge" that she showed by a well fed and obivously people habituated animal vs. a wild underfed bear's bluff charge. Do Black bears bluff charge, absolutely, do they often get killed because of this also likely. That lady is a moron for getting that close to a wild animal and purposely adgatating it.

I think with many situations where someone is attempting to reveal and demonstrate a wild animals behavior, it sometimes becomes necessary to provoke those behaviors by agitating it. It's no different than when a snakehandler is attempting to show a Rattlesnake's defensive behaviors. It may seem a bit over-the-top, but it's for a purpose. I think you're wanting to dismiss her when in fact you could be learning something. Her lesson isn't to go out and repeat what she's doing. It's to enlighten and demonstrate to people the timid nature of Black Bears. If it serves to save a few from being unnecessary killed by inexperienced outdoorspeople, then she's been successful.
The Black Bear in the video is no less wild than the one you attempt to conjure in your post. The fact that she was able to easily spook the bear away is indicative of a bear that is not accustomed to human interaction. The co-dependent campground bears here in Ca. are not so easily chased off. It usually requires alot more coersion in order to scram a bear. A friend of mine that owns a place in Mammoth has repeated encounters with bears, and she has had to ********** a bear with a snow shovel in order to get it off her deck. That bear was entirely too comfortable with people.
The incident you experienced (if it involved a Black Bear) was still well within the description of a bluff charge. They'll travel a good distance towards you (or your dog) up to a point, then veer off. They may repeat this behavior a couple of times in order to get you out of their space. But, ultimately if you were to lunge on the bear, it would yield and take off. The last thing a famished bear wants to take on is an unfamiliar food source like a dog. In most case a Black Bear will flee from a dog.
Here's a place that explains more:
http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/bears-a-humans.html

 

[bobDog]

Yeah, I hear ya. I was having fun with the idea that anybody at all could answer that any other way. :Wow1:

I guess my sick joke would be "if they want to go to Africa without a gun, let 'em. Darwinism needs to work its course. And animals gotta eat, too." :chowtime:

LOL.... I can just imagine the quotes....."Yes I like humans....right next to the blackberries!":elkgrin:

 

[Klierslc]

Just coming back to this thread. There have been a couple of references made to Black Bears. There are a lot of misconceptions regarding their behavior.
First, Mama Bear won't protect her young....she'll run. It's how she's hardwired, and insures her ability to breed again another day. Second, they rarely, meaning very, very rarely follow through on a charge. You can expect "bluff charges", but an attack resulting from a confrontation would be unlikely. If you're packing a gun, you need to be aware of this and give a Black Bear a chance to do what these bears ultimately do....run! Although I don't know anything of this woman's political ramblings, she does a great job of demonstating the nature of a typical Black Bear "bluff charge". Most people crap their pants in this situation and the internet is loaded with videos of people getting close to Black Bears and suddenly having their videos disrupted when being bluff-charged. This woman is obviously very experienced with them and stood her ground to show what is the whole story and the routine outcome to these videos..

YouTube - A Bluff Charge by a Black Bear - NOT A BLACK BEAR ATTACK


The Grizz on the other hand, has an entirely different set of behaviors.

You seem to be basing your assumptions on what should happen and what usually happens, rather than on what could happen. You are correct that a gun is not "essential" to camping. Guns are also not "essential" in law enforcement--look at the Brits..."Stop! or I'll throw my stick at you!"

i.e. I can sit here and sip my coffee while this black bear is charging me, because it is PROBABLY a bluff charge.........hmmm, he doesn't seem to be stopping....................wow, this is pretty convincing for a bluff charge........ this is good coffee....... holy cow that bear stinks......................... AHHHHHHhhh....

Also, a very important facet of the discussion that you are missing is the presence of others/kids. I am pretty comfortable facing down a black bear during a bluff charge without shooting it, but if the wifey and kiddos are along, then it is game on as soon as it starts the charge.

To the OP. Yes I carry while camping....it just makes sense to have it along.

 

[Kohburn]

who plans for the "normal" and "average"

you plan ahead for the events that might happen to minimize the impact if and when they do.

do you go offroading without any recovery gear/fuel/tools and assume that you won't get stuck or have something break?

do you cancel the insurance on your house because well you haven't had a housefire or hurricane damage in the past so why whould it happen now?

cancel health insurance because you are young and healthy and nothing terrible should ever happen to you?

no that just isn't logical behavior. Plan for the worst and hope for the best possible outcomes. Don't dwell on what could happen, but be aware and prepared.

I choose to carry where ever I legaly can, not because i always need it, but because I never want to need it and not have it. And yes I am very accustomed to going in unsavory places without it because of the laws in my home state.

 

[LACamper]

I choose to carry where ever I legaly can, not because i always need it, but because I never want to need it and not have it. And yes I am very accustomed to going in unsavory places without it because of the laws in my home state.

I think its time to move!

 

[bobDog]

I think its time to move!

Because there are to many concealed or not enough?:sombrero: