Camping with Firearm-Post Bear Mauling

[bcrez]

If you deploy bear spray in a tent you are going to be just as disabled as the bear and unable to escape as it tears apart everything it touches while trying to get out. Having to escape the clutches of a blind hysterical bear while I myself am choking on bear mace sounds like a really bad idea.

It will make me double check my bear spray...

Not sure a firearm is gonna help nearly as much as bear spray when you are in a tent...

 

[coreys88burban]

I have shot both but I like the .460 over the .500. The .460 has a higher velocity and less kick. Especially with the 8" compensated barrel. I was practicing at the range and fired off about 30 rounds with no ill effects.


Pretty impressive at night too. :Wow1: Shows you why you don't want meat anywhere near the cylinder gap if you want to keep it. :sombrero: It's a 60,000 PSI plasma cutter in your hand.

i heard the 460 would kicks really hard. i guess ill have to try it out! the 454 flames up like that too i like watch someone else shoot at night. it goes out the sides like 2 feet; looks cool.

 

[Rofocowboy]

Speaking of tasers, I wonder what that would do to a bear. Probably just piss it off even more.

http://www.itaser.com/

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, and being a veteran on other forums, I know how annoying it is to have a newbie answer something that's already been answered, along with resurrecting a month's old thread, but I figured I had to answer this question before I forgot. I apologize in advance.

Anyway....Taser International (which btw is the ONLY manufacturer of Tasers, what with it being a trade-marked name and all, the rest are called "stun guns" or EBIDs aka Electronic Body Immobilization Devices) actually makes a "Wildlife Management" model that is meant specifically for large animals. I've seen one drop an adult bull cow at full charge, so I'm sure they'd be just as effective against a bear.

HERE is their site.


Also, someone referred to using bear spray in a tent to be pointless because you'd be just as incapacitated as the bear. IMHO, it would still be effective, for one main reason, you'd know what's going on. The bear would think, "OMGWTF my face is on fire, what's happening to me?!" You, on the other hand, would know what's causing it, and while you'd be in just as much pain, wouldn't have the whole confusion factor. The bear would run away from this new source of excruciating pain, while you'd just fumble around for the closest water bottle.

 

[alexfm]

As I mentioned in the other thread,

A "campground" bear is completely different than the bear you might encounter in the back country.

A campground bear has an objective. And it is a simple one. Find and retrieve food. By any means necessary. They know that campers carry food, so they look for it, and take it by force if need be.

Back-country bears really want nothing to do with you. Just be sure you dont startle them, as they will respond in a matter you probably wont approve of. :Wow1:

Knowing this, VERY few hand guns will put a bear down. I carry a .40 semi-auto any time we are out in the woods. But I know my chances of actually surviving a bear attack, gun or not, are quite slim.

In order to put one down with a hand gun, you'd have to wait for the bear to show you a soft spot, to allow a clear shot at vitals. Good luck with that. Id also recommend nothing short of a .45

Last year, I worked at a scout camp up in Cloudcroft NM. One night, talking to the ranger about a bear sighting in one of the more remote campsites, i was telling him about something I saw, and he started telling me about the last big bear they had, which was about 6 years before. He said it was a good size bear (brown or black, I dont remember) that started roaming around about the middle of the first week (staff week). The bear would just walk over to the dumpster by the dining hall, try and get some food, and the saunter over to a small clearing and lounge in the sun, in full view of everyone. IT didnt really phase anyone at that point, as the whole staff was told not to bother it, and they were all older (16+). When the first week of campers started showing up, the bear started going into campsites, and broke into multiple tents, and I think a vehicle or two. Finally, after about two weeks of the bear doing whatever it wanted, the Ranger calls the game warden, and the warden brings in a specially designed trailer, like the kind the dog catcher has, to catch the bear and release it somewhere, as no one wanted to kill it. Of course, the bear was too smart for that, and would simply grab whatever food was in the trailer and escape. By this point, everyone was kinda nervous, as the bear was being seen 4 or 5 times a day. I dont remember exactly what the ranger told me, but something happened, and they called in the local police, game warden, everyone, and they had the bear cornered on the main road through camp, and it was pissed. It was roaring at the cops, but none of them would shoot it, as they said their 9mm handguns, wouldn't do the deed. The ranger replies, "Well then yuo all wait here, and I'll go get my .357. I can pop all 6 shots in a hole the size of a baseball and blow its back out." So he goes to get his pistol, and on the way back, hears a couple shots. Apparently one of the cops, or a sheriff's deputy was carrying his own .45, and put the bear down when it moved in on one of the other men. Long story short, he killed the bear, and as a token of gratitude, he got to keep the hide. Which seems like a heck of a deal, considering it was valued at $2400. :Wow1:

Long story short, this big (Maybe 700lbs? I dont really remember what the Ranger told me, it was almost a year ago that I heard this story) bear got taken down with a couple shots from a .45, so you can take down a bear with a pistol. Although, I'd personally rather take a good, 12ga. pump gun along, you can never have too much firepower. :sombrero:

 

[Pskhaat]

Actually, the way our shoulders and necks are shaped, it makes it almost impossible for a mountain lion to achieve a quick kill on a human, allowing the possability of fighting it off, which happens in most of the cases. You will be injured, for sure, but likely not killed during the attack.

I'm not sold on that one. Two friends of mine before I was 18 were killed by these cats.

Pic of the one who killed my friend Scott L, yet was estimated to be a small cat. http://www.beastinthegarden.com/Photo Scott's Killer.htm

Then, on January 16, 1991, the body of 18-year-old Scott Lancaster, guarded by a mountain lion, was found behind Clear Creek High School in the Rocky Mountain foothills west of Denver. He had gone out for his daily run two days earlier and was killed in the middle of the afternoon, in view of homes and an interstate highway. “This was the first fatal mountain lion attack in all of North America in more than 100 years,” says Baron.

We can agree it is rare, though.

 

[Pskhaat]

Long story short, this big (Maybe 700lbs? I dont really remember what the Ranger told me, it was almost a year ago that I heard this story) bear got taken down with a couple shots from a .45, so you can take down a bear with a pistol. Although, I'd personally rather take a good, 12ga. pump gun along, you can never have too much firepower.

I'd agree a good pistol shot will do the work for you, but I still wouldn't trust a shotgun at such a distance to do anything substantial. Close range, sure.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'd agree a good pistol shot will do the work for you, but I still wouldn't trust a shotgun at such a distance to do anything substantial. Close range, sure.

Hi Scott,

I've read through the entire thread, and it's not clear to me what you are refering to when you write "at such a distance". How far away were you planning on shooting?

Let's note that both the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Alaska and the Canadian Department of Renewable Resources both consider a 12 gauge, 3 inch magnum shotgun with one inch rifled slugs; or a 30-06 with 200 grain bullets, to be the MINIMUM power level for bear defense. Professional Hunting guides, who actually have to drop a charging, wounded bear when the client they are guiding only wounds the bear he is hunting, all use much more powerful calibers than a mere 30-06.

ALLof these make any handgun look like a cap gun by comparison. Don't take my word for it. Get some ammo charts and check the numbers yourself.

There are a couple of maxims floating around:

"No intelligent person will take a handgun to a gun fight with any great degree of enthusiasm."

and

"In combat, a pistol's only purpose is to fight your way back to your rifle, which you shouldn't have put down in the first place."

The second quote is from Clint Smith, who is both a former Vietnam Combat Vet and former chief instructor for Cooper at Gunsite.

As for Bear Spray, I really don't know if it's better than a gun, as good as a gun, or worse than a gun. I do note that it seems like they are suddenly pushing it like crazy. Ever since the law was passed allowing the carrying of firearms in National Parks. A suspicious person might think that they've been ORDERED to sing it's praises so as to discourage people from actually exercising their right to carry in the Parks.

I watched a three part National Geographic special recently on PBS dealing with Brown, Black, and Polar Bears in Alaska. The professional wildlife biologist/expert was seen with a twelve gauge slung over his shoulder in several of the scenes.

I also noted that their backpacking tent had an anti-bear electric fence around it in several scenes. I've heard good things about those, and apparently they work quite well.

As always, just my never-particularly-humble opinion.

Regards
John

 

[Bob Keyes]

My wife is a wildlife photographer and we lived in an area where bears also lived, our bear rules were simple. She used the largest lens in the bag. I would have a bear tag, the season would be open, and I would have a "STOPPING" rifle (.450 marlin). The bear could be a bear all day long, I didn't care, but if it worried me once it was carpet, end of story. We got amazing bear pictures and no new floor coverings, we were both happy.

 

[RBishop]

It won't change anything for me. I always have carried a gun and this doesn't change anything.

While true in that particular situation it may not help but that isn't the only situation out there.

I carry a Ruger Alaskan .454 Casuall. Trust me...it WILL stop a bear.

Yes sir it sure will! Nice choice in caliber.

 

[Mike S]

Interesting subject, which often brings out hidden levels of personal insecurity. In grizzly country, at least, it is common sense to be armed appropriately. I have traveled, hiked, horse packed, fished and hunted in grizzly country, in both Canada and the US. There is something primal about finding fresh grizzly tracks in the trail ahead of you - it definitely creates a certain "pucker factor". These animals are dangerous when provoked, and it is the BEAR that decides what provocation is. Sometimes simply being in the same place is enough provocation. I have run into a lot of bears and a few mountain lions at close range over the years, but I have never killed a bear and have no interest in doing so.

I own a Smith and Wesson 629 .44 magnum pistol with a 4-1/2" barrel and a shoulder holster to carry it in. In the back country it is always handy and nearby. Granted that a pistol is a weapon for use in extremis. But, if you think that these big caliber pistols won't kill a bear at close range, you are wrong. A close friend of mine was moose hunting in the alder thickets of the Alaska Peninsula when they started a very large brown bear from it's bed. It took off and ran in a circle until it hit their back trail, then turned and started up the trail towards them. At full speed. My friend was carrying .454 Casull pistol and two shots anchored the bear at less than ten feet. Not a false charge. This bear, when stretched flat on the ground, was 4.5 feet from ground to shoulder and the big Casull pistol easily fit between his ears when laid on the top of his head. This bear was about 2X the size of the average interior grizzlies that would be found in the US/Canada Rockies. This was an unfortunate accident that, fortunately, did not involve a human death.

When my cousin took a job as a geologist with a North Slope oil exploration company he asked me about weapons that might be needed in the back country. I suggested that a 12 gauge Remington 870 riot gun with shoulder sling would be worth carrying on the North Slope back country. With slugs and 00 buckshot this weapon would turn any animal smaller than a T Rex. We bought one and I spent a couple days getting him comfortable with carrying and shooting it.

It has been a while since I camped in a ground tent when traveling by vehicle. The RTT does provide a different profile and level of accessibility to a marauding bear rummaging around you camp site for his dinner. IMO, it is far more secure than ground tents when a bear comes calling.

Here is a link to Wikipedia reporting bear attack fatalities in the US and Canada. Interesting data: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

 

[SunFlower]

I am always very surprised when people say "a gun wont do much good".

People hunt bears in America and trust me, guns kill bears.

No guns and bears kill humans.

However, you are free to make the choice that works best for you.

 

[2025 deleted member]

Yeah I couldn't imagine guys going on a hunting trip with just bear spray.

I am always very surprised when people say "a gun wont do much good".

People hunt bears in America and trust me, guns kill bears.

No guns and bears kill humans.

However, you are free to make the choice that works best for you.

 

[GregSplett]

My wife can not understand why I hate tents.When I first met her it was camping with some friends.I slept on the ground with my usual tarp,her in a large tent. She Thought that was just dumb.

I live in the foot hills of the Olympic mountains.My true passion is exploring the rivers and creeks for fish.Mainly Steelhead. I generally am off trail and sleep on the river bank or bar.These are bear highways at night.Black bears mind you but still bears.I have had more bear encounter than I can remember.They are truly my favorite animal that lives here.But getting woke in the early morning by a strange sound like river rock getting pushed around and not being able to see and access it drives me crazy.I just feel vulnerable in a tent.The opposite of most people but most people have never dealt with a bear let alone many.I do not sleep in tents in the back country.

Of course I married the girl that thought I was nuts for not sleeping in a tent.Now I have a big expensive tent and all the trimmings we use when she wants to go camping,which is once a month all year.And I can not sleep.

I have been known to use trip wires to stear them away.

 

[PirateMcGee]

Yeah I couldn't imagine guys going on a hunting trip with just bear spray.

Bear spray, brass knuckles, and a well practiced Steven Segal neck snap is how real men hunt bears :elkgrin:

 

[Yuman Desert Rat]

Desert Eagle .50.... 300gr hollow point.... It will stop pretty much anything... even a zombie-bear!