Canadian Disco 2 Build

[R_Lefebvre]

Actually Michael, could you confirm if LR ever sold the 4.6L V8 with a manual trans? Does the R380 just bolt up? If not, but it's just a matter of the 4.6 over-powering the R380, I'm pretty gentle so maybe it would work. Currently running a stock 130hp clutch in a 250hp car with no issues. I wonder what other conversion bits would be necessary. The clutch pedal and center console....

 

[michaelgroves]

Actually Michael, could you confirm if LR ever sold the 4.6L V8 with a manual trans? Does the R380 just bolt up? If not, but it's just a matter of the 4.6 over-powering the R380, I'm pretty gentle so maybe it would work. Currently running a stock 130hp clutch in a 250hp car with no issues. I wonder what other conversion bits would be necessary. The clutch pedal and center console....

I don't think they ever sold the 4.6 here. None of the V8s was popular here, with petrol at US$5-6/gal. As I recall, the 4.0 V8s were sold until 2004, and were available with a manual box only until 2001. After that, auto only. I don't know which manual box it was, probably the R380, same as the TD5.

The engine side of the 4.0 and the 4.6 bell housings might well be the same, and so might the engine mountings, which would probably make it feasible to use the bell housing from a 4.0 manual, to mate the 4.6 to the R380.


The R380 was also used in the 4.0 and 4.6 litre V8 versions of the P38 Range Rover. This might not have much relevance, unless the 4.6 is identical to the unit used in the DII.

Hope this helps.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

That's excellent info. Especially the part about the 4.6 and R380 in a Range Rover? I think this is definitely possible.

I can get an R380 locally, and probably have to source a center console and trim, clutch pedal assembly, clutch lines, not sure what else from the UK. I wonder about the cross member...

I don't know if there's something I'm missing here, however. Is there something about the auto V8 that is different from a manual. The output shaft, or something? It almost seems to easy, and weird that nobody has done it before?

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Found this:

1994 to 2006: The R380 box was introduced as brand new LR gearbox across the entire Land Rover and Range Rover product lines. The R380 is a radically reworked LT77 (The 1940's Jag gearbox remember) with improved main shaft bearing arrangements that provided an overall strengthening of the box. The R380 name stands for "Rated to 380 Nm input". But the R380 still has the LT77's 77 mm shaft spacing. Since Rover was no longer part of British Leyland the LT prefix was abandoned.

The V8 and Tdi R380 gearboxes have different bell housings and primary input shafts. They will interchange by swapping these parts.

The R380 quickly got a bad name from gear problems and accelerated main shaft spline wear where it mates with the LT230 transfer case.

The LT230 accelerated main shaft spline wear problem had been present on all previous LT230 equipped Land-Rovers, irrespective of the gearbox it was mated to. This design problem was kept low key until a lot of customers complained about R380 problems.

A number of different fixes, such as slingers and special transfer case input shafts have been added to try solve the LT230 problem.

From here:

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/gearboxes.htm

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Called up Justin at http://www.lucky8llc.com/ as he's the only one I know of who's done this before. He took a GEMS 4.6L from a P38, and mated it to the R380 from a D1, bolted the lot into an ex-Bosch-4.0L D2. Wow. From that conversation, I've learned that the clutch pedal is built into a 3-pedal-box which I'll need to swap from my 2-pedal-box. He managed to get his D1 box to fit his D2. Also will need a Crank Position Sensor from a Bosch 4.6L Manual. And possibly a new oil pan, as they are different auto-vs-manual. Well maybe, have to confirm that yet.

I then called Dom from http://www.landroversalvage.ca/store/index.php who is nearby, and we talked about sourcing some parts.

He'll be trying to get the R380 for a V8, pedal box assembly, oil cooler lines, slave cylinder, clutch kit and I might as well do a rear main seal. I'll try to get it from a D2 if possible, but D1 should work if I have to.

Couple part numbers for posterity:

Bosch 4.6L Manual Flywheel: PSD103340
Bosch 4.6L Manual Crank Position Sensor: ERR7352

I'm going ahead with this and will document the whole thing here.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Took the pan off last night and got a sample of oil in a clean jar. It's not as bad as I thought, but it doesn't look good. I'll send this to a pro for an opinion. No metal particles, but a lot of “mung” stuck to the magnet. None of it's big, so it's probably normal. But it looks like a lot of clutch material contaminating the fluid and in the pan. Then I opened up the filter to see how bad it is. Again, not as bad as I thought, but I don't think it's very good. Lots of clutch material. I bet this transmission could be rebuilt with new clutches and be fine, but I'm just not very interested in it. Being stranded with near zero warning is just not cool, especially if you're going off-pavement. And that's the potential with an auto trans.

BTW, that fluid was flushed only about 1-2000 km ago.

Did some more research last night. The problem is I need a pedal box from a V8 manual LHD Discovery2, which were very rare, hard to find. It's easy to find a LHD diesel manual D2 pedal box, but those have an electronic throttle pedal, not cable actuated as I still need for the V8. http://www.lucky8llc.com/ used the box from a LHD Manual V8 D1 on his D2, which pretty much fits, but I'd like to keep it as “factory” as possible. I was tipped off by somebody else who did a swap on a D1, and confirmed it myself. The brake and clutch pedals hang from a shaft in the pedal box. That shaft is full width, even though I don't have a clutch. I think I could get a D2 LHD Diesel pedal box, and take it apart to get the clutch pedal and hydraulic cylinder, and the skinny brake pedal, and install it on my box.

 

[Mercedesrover]

Being stranded with near zero warning is just not cool, especially if you're going off-pavement.

You need to find a new brand of truck.

Actually, probably a new hobby altogether.....

 

[94Discovery]

looking like your auto plats melted and disintegrated into the oil ,
you note it is not bad,oil in auto trany should not have this kind of dirt and muck .
i say try to clean everything put fresh oil and test ,if it works work it a little then drop the filter again change filter and assemble ad oil and drive .
i had bad experience with automatic and i am in the process to change my d1 to a manual i hope will be done in the end of this summer

 

[R_Lefebvre]

You need to find a new brand of truck.

Actually, probably a new hobby altogether.....

Or just fix the problems.

For equal money, why would I put an auto back in?

The problem with automatic trans, is they can't be diagnosed or repaired into the field. The electro-hydraulic whizbangery is just too complicated. With an engine, the real day-enders can easily be carried and replaced, so barring complete mechanical failure...

 

[muskyman]

that trans was cooking hot a number of times as well as contaminated IMHO The stain in the pan shows that to me.

 

[Dmarchand]

x3, you should not have that level of contamination and clutch particles in your fluid (or pan). The clutches are completely gone and the valve body is contaminated. Not sure what sending your fluid off is going to get you.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I'm not sending the fluid anywhere. I just meant the pics.

And I've determined what I want to do with the R380 is source an L-suffix unit, as it has an number of improvements over the earlier ones which gave it a bad name. I also want the ROW so it has the oil cooler pump.

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_2.html#pa1

I'll get one from a TD5 if I have to and change the input shaft to suit the V8. Hell, if I can find the money, I'll just get a whole rebuilt unit from Ashcroft.

 

[Yorker]

Or just fix the problems.

For equal money, why would I put an auto back in?

Who said it would be equal money? Replacing same with same should be less time, less effort, and less money for the tranny to begin with. If you want to use this as an excuse to switch to a manual fine but I doubt the two will be equal in price.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I've been quoted $950 just for a used trans. Or up to $3000 for a professionally rebuilt unit. I might very well need a torque converter as well, who knows.

I've been quoted $2300 for the parts to do this swap.

But yes, it very much is an excuse to switch, I have no trouble admitting that. I hate autos.

R380 Overhaul Manual:

http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Maunals/R380 Gearbox Overhaul Manual.pdf

4HP22/24 Overhaul Manual:

http://www.zf.com/na/content/en/north_america/corporate_na/meta_na/errors_na/error-404.html

Ooops, not there. The official Rave CD 4HP24 repair proceedure is basically: "If it's not working, remove it and replace it." Doesn't even so much as give the proper solenoid valve resistances so you can check them.

 

[94Discovery]

http://advanceadapters.com/index.php?p=view_category&search_text=land+rover&x=0&y=0