canter rims
- Thread starter alan
- Start date
blackduck
Explorer
strange as it may seem but my swb is derated to 4.5t in qld my compliance plate is unchanged WRT Tare & GCM the only change is GVM
so with loaded truck and van in tow im good for nearly 9.5t
as nothing on the truck has changed WRT suspension etc this makes perfect sense - its pretty much all acedemic
not sure if this is the done thing but who am i to argue with captain bligh and her licensing dept
so i do as my compliance plate advises
so with loaded truck and van in tow im good for nearly 9.5t
as nothing on the truck has changed WRT suspension etc this makes perfect sense - its pretty much all acedemic
not sure if this is the done thing but who am i to argue with captain bligh and her licensing dept
so i do as my compliance plate advises
westyss
Explorer
Besides compliance with the law, I think just the fact that tire ratings become a factor in what can be installed on a 16" rim, the reason most are now going to a 19.5" are to achieve single tire use instead of duellies with enough capacity for the load, and as we all know, rigs get loaded (or overloaded ) all the time, so just derating a truck is one option, but is it a good option? plan ahead and use a tire applicable to a realistic load (or overload ), if a 16" rim and tire are Ok , go for it, but most will say go to a tire with extra capacity just in case its overloaded with a strong enough tire to go into the bush and not have issues, a higher load rated tire as stated previously will stand up to more abuse than a lower rated tire, no? I looked long and hard at tire/rim options and why re-invent the wheel, do what has been proven to work, or at least is given the green light to work, ie, the ATW 19.5 wheels that have been tested and work. If Alan was to get a 19.5 rim then all is OK and no issues, even though a 16" rim with a proper load rated tire would be more desireable. So we have one or the other
1) New 16"tire with proper load rating (doesnt seem to exist)
2) 19.5" Aluminum bling rim to accommadate proper rated tires for these trucks.
When I was looking I sure would have gone for a 19.5 Al rim, seems like a perfect fit. I think Bajaroad did the 16" rim , cant remember the tires used but he could maybe shed some light on servicability of the tires with camper on.
1) New 16"tire with proper load rating (doesnt seem to exist)
2) 19.5" Aluminum bling rim to accommadate proper rated tires for these trucks.
When I was looking I sure would have gone for a 19.5 Al rim, seems like a perfect fit. I think Bajaroad did the 16" rim , cant remember the tires used but he could maybe shed some light on servicability of the tires with camper on.
westyss
Explorer
Out of curiosity I looked up toyo MT tires, I think Bajaroad had the LT315/75R16 127Q load rating, which is around 4000 lb I think, also have a LT385/70R16 130Q over 37" in diameter and wide, like 15", would these work ? does anyone have a load weight for 127 and 130? They are both a 16" rim.
Bandicoot
Adventurer
EarthCruiser running Michelins or Hankooks
There are definately options for 4.5 and 6 tonne vehicles using super single wheels with rims smaller than 19.5 inch.
My EarthCruiser came standard with Michelin XZL 255/100 R16 which are rated at 1700 kg at 110 kph. My EC runs almost exactly 50/50 front rear axle loads so I could have a GVM of up to 4 x 1.7 = 6.8 tonnes based on tyre loads. Of course, the FG front axle is limited to 2.6 t and the rear to 4.3 t, so tyres rated at 1.7 t each is more than sufficient for the front axle and with a GVM of 6 t and 50/50 load distribution, there's not much point having a rating that much more than 1.5 t per tyre on the back.
I am currently running Hankook 37x12.5R17LT tyres (on 17 x 8 inch rims) rated at 129Q which means 1800 kg at 160 kph. Even apart from the GVM, my EC at absolutely full load with 1/2 tonne of water and fuel on board, full expedition equipment and supplies for a few weeks of unsupported travel, etc (plus wife) runs at about 5.2 t. So 1700 to 1800 kg tyres have a very ample margin already.
Both the Michelins and Hankooks have their full load rating at 65 psi and since I run much lower than 1700/1800 kg, I can (and do) run the tyres at around 50 psi cold. This is also what both manufacturers recommend for this tyre loading.
And this is where this type of tyre really comes into its own. For any given suspension, a tyre running at 50 psi has a much larger (double?) footprint on the ground than a 19.5 inch tyre (typically running at 90 to 110 psi for the same load). This means much better adhesion to the road surface so better braking and cornering. It also means a much softer better ride for the occupants.
Also, smaller rims means higher sidewalls (for the same overall tyre diameter) which gives much better "air-down" capability for soft-road, off-road and sand work.
I've run the Michelins at 12 psi hot to get out of a pickle. I doubt this could be done with any 19.5 inch tyre.
Finally, both these rim/tyre combos run at about 60 kg per wheel. This is manageable for most adult males. A 19.5 inch wheel is more like 80 kg per wheel; this is a real safety and manual handling exercise and also requires that much stronger spare tyre carrier, etc.
Rick
There are definately options for 4.5 and 6 tonne vehicles using super single wheels with rims smaller than 19.5 inch.
My EarthCruiser came standard with Michelin XZL 255/100 R16 which are rated at 1700 kg at 110 kph. My EC runs almost exactly 50/50 front rear axle loads so I could have a GVM of up to 4 x 1.7 = 6.8 tonnes based on tyre loads. Of course, the FG front axle is limited to 2.6 t and the rear to 4.3 t, so tyres rated at 1.7 t each is more than sufficient for the front axle and with a GVM of 6 t and 50/50 load distribution, there's not much point having a rating that much more than 1.5 t per tyre on the back.
I am currently running Hankook 37x12.5R17LT tyres (on 17 x 8 inch rims) rated at 129Q which means 1800 kg at 160 kph. Even apart from the GVM, my EC at absolutely full load with 1/2 tonne of water and fuel on board, full expedition equipment and supplies for a few weeks of unsupported travel, etc (plus wife) runs at about 5.2 t. So 1700 to 1800 kg tyres have a very ample margin already.
Both the Michelins and Hankooks have their full load rating at 65 psi and since I run much lower than 1700/1800 kg, I can (and do) run the tyres at around 50 psi cold. This is also what both manufacturers recommend for this tyre loading.
And this is where this type of tyre really comes into its own. For any given suspension, a tyre running at 50 psi has a much larger (double?) footprint on the ground than a 19.5 inch tyre (typically running at 90 to 110 psi for the same load). This means much better adhesion to the road surface so better braking and cornering. It also means a much softer better ride for the occupants.
Also, smaller rims means higher sidewalls (for the same overall tyre diameter) which gives much better "air-down" capability for soft-road, off-road and sand work.
I've run the Michelins at 12 psi hot to get out of a pickle. I doubt this could be done with any 19.5 inch tyre.
Finally, both these rim/tyre combos run at about 60 kg per wheel. This is manageable for most adult males. A 19.5 inch wheel is more like 80 kg per wheel; this is a real safety and manual handling exercise and also requires that much stronger spare tyre carrier, etc.
Rick
bptp7270
Adventurer
I'm confused with this derating business. I assume that the EC's are 4.5t, but do they have a new rating for each axle? It has been explained to me(don't know if its wrong or right) that the legalities require that your wheels and tyres on each axle are at least equivalent to that axle's rating and not just the truck's GVM divided by 2. In the case of the 6t truck it is 4.3 on the rear and even if you never get anywhere near this in practice, legally your wheel/tyre combo must meet this capacity. At least this is what I was told.
Anthony
Anthony
blackduck
Explorer
as far as i know de rating is primarily based on licensing requirements in a particular state (taking into account we have 7 sets of licensing legislation in this country)
the concept is being able to drive a load carrying vehicle on a common car licence by reducing the carrying capacity reducing the risk.
derating does not change the charachteristics of the vehicle unless you change the phyisical build of the vehicle
in my case my derated 4.5T swb canter still has all the running gear of the 6 tonner but now the dragon can drive it without the need for a LR licence
if i change the suspension and wheels / tyres (and believe me its going to happen) then the axle load rating will be determined by the choice of replacement parts and certified by an engineer
thats my take on it anyway
the concept is being able to drive a load carrying vehicle on a common car licence by reducing the carrying capacity reducing the risk.
derating does not change the charachteristics of the vehicle unless you change the phyisical build of the vehicle
in my case my derated 4.5T swb canter still has all the running gear of the 6 tonner but now the dragon can drive it without the need for a LR licence
if i change the suspension and wheels / tyres (and believe me its going to happen) then the axle load rating will be determined by the choice of replacement parts and certified by an engineer
thats my take on it anyway
SkiFreak
Crazy Person
Be aware that if your truck is de-rated to 4.5 tonne then, no matter what suspension/wheel setup you have, that is your total legal GVM.
If you were unlucky enough to have an accident and it was proven you were over your "legal" weight limit, your insurance would not cover you.
The fact that the vehicle is technically capable of carrying 6 tonne is irrelevant.
If you were unlucky enough to have an accident and it was proven you were over your "legal" weight limit, your insurance would not cover you.
The fact that the vehicle is technically capable of carrying 6 tonne is irrelevant.
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Hi Anthony.
That's what I've always been told too. If the tyres are rated at 1.7T then they are sufficient on the front axle rated at 2.6T but they will be under rated for the 4.3 T rear axle by 900kg. So the truck running under rated tyres should be derated.
Even if it's 50/50 load share, you still can't exceed the front axle rating.....if 50/50 is the case, then that would still mean 2 x 2.6T = only 5.2 T anyway with no safety margin (ie. OEM is 2.6T + 4.3T = 6.9T so .9T over rated GVM) .....but then you might can get away with that on a motorhome...not on a truck with a tray. This will be a federal standard. I'll see what documentation I can dig up from the Federal Transport site.
A 19.5 " tyre does not run double the psi for the same load as a 16" . The 4x4 buses that run here to Fraser all run the same 65 psi whether they run 16's or 19.5. 110 psi would be the sort of pressures you would expect in an 8T + truck.
IMO. A 100R tyre will never corner better than a lower profile 70R. Grab the bullbar of a truck fitted with 100R tyres and push sideways....you will be amazed how much the sidewalls allow the truck to move around.
Guys will air 19.5's down to whatever psi they have to, to get out of trouble. The problem with the 19.5's is the the tread ply and sidewalls are so much stronger (and puncture resistant as a result) that if they aren't reinflated after you get into trouble that running too fast for a given pressure can then generate excessive heat which can then cause tyre damage. So they can be aired right down but speed has to be monitored according to the set pressure. Granted, the speed can be much higher for an aired down XZL than a typical 19.5.
Well said.
Last edited:
offroadpup
New member
In every single case it is important to find the specification of your exact vehicle before making any decision on tyres. Many posts rate the FG rear axle at 4.3T however this is not always the case and threw me off the trail when first visiting this forum until I did the leg work to find the specs for my exact truck and talking in generalities as if all FGs are the same does not help people at all, it just restricts options for those who don't have the same choice limitations your truck has. This wasn't hard to do, everything you need will be on the drivers and passenger doorframe with confirmation via Mitsubishi/Fuso spec sheets if you want the warm and fuzzy of a second opinion, or to confirm details not on the plates.
The first is the model plate which is useful to check against other specifications for your exact truck. Mine was the frontmost plate on the front passenger door frame. In my case it clearly states it is a FG637EW6V (apologies if the image is on its side for anyone;
The next was the compliance plate which has the correct GVM for your truck. This was next to the model plate above on mine and shows my total GVM to be 5500kg (not 6T as with some other models);
Next was the tyre placard which was on the drivers door frame below the striker plate which says 2 important things; The rear axle rating is 3300kg (not 4.3T), front is 2360kg and that tyres must not be rated less than 'L' - 120KPH, 'L' is the minimum speed rating (so Michilen XZLs rated to do 110kph are not a legal tyre for my truck);
So this means to run with singles all round for me I need rims and tyres to be rated to 3300/2=1650kg minimum. Googling for "load rating table" for me had the first hit as Bob Jane's web (http://www.bobjane.com.au/load-speed-ratings.html) which along with every other one I've seen shows 1650kg = a load rating number of '125', so I am looking for tyres rated 125L or better.
As the wheels I am running (Alan's blings) are rated 1800kg they easily cover the 1650kg requirement [hoping this qualifies as this post not being a hijack, apologies Alan if otherwise].
The tyres are a little more confusing as there are 2 numbers on them. For instance my tyres are 315/75/R16 Goodyear Duratracs and are rated 127/124Q. The first number (127) is the rating when used as a single, the second (124) is the rating when used as a dually with 4 on the axle and the 'Q' is the speed rating. So as a single 127Q is more than adequate for the 125L rating I need and this tyre and wheel is a perfectly valid combination for my truck
It was also handy (for piece of mind) to confirm this via the Mitsu spec sheet for my exact model and on finding it nothing contradicts the above. Note in the image below the model (exactly with all numbers and letters matching) is listed at the top left and the REAR AXLE section states "Capacity - Axle: 3300kg" and "Load Rating - ADR 24: 3300kg". Under wheels and tyres, whilst the load info was for the duallys, the speed rating at the end shows 'L'. To find this sheet I just had to do some googling etc but everything you need should be on the truck so this is not required, just reassuring.
So my advice to people is not to listen to any advice about this for your truck that is not tailored for it and if in doubt ask an engineer or your state's transport dept, not a salesperson with a vested interest in telling you that what they sell is the only legal option.
You'll also notice that although mine is the crewcab, under the models on this sheet is a couple of single cabs with exactly the same load specs so it may well be that your truck does not require a 4.3T rear rated setup and you can enjoy a much wider choice of rims and tyres than you think.
Just another point on towing discussion, this is in the spec sheet too, notice beside all of the covered models says GCM 6500kg off road and 7500kg on road. This is the gross combined mass of truck and anything towed. It's a good idea to check this for your truck also as going over these limits may also invalidate insurance claims.
Hope this helps,
-Andy
The first is the model plate which is useful to check against other specifications for your exact truck. Mine was the frontmost plate on the front passenger door frame. In my case it clearly states it is a FG637EW6V (apologies if the image is on its side for anyone;
The next was the compliance plate which has the correct GVM for your truck. This was next to the model plate above on mine and shows my total GVM to be 5500kg (not 6T as with some other models);
Next was the tyre placard which was on the drivers door frame below the striker plate which says 2 important things; The rear axle rating is 3300kg (not 4.3T), front is 2360kg and that tyres must not be rated less than 'L' - 120KPH, 'L' is the minimum speed rating (so Michilen XZLs rated to do 110kph are not a legal tyre for my truck);
So this means to run with singles all round for me I need rims and tyres to be rated to 3300/2=1650kg minimum. Googling for "load rating table" for me had the first hit as Bob Jane's web (http://www.bobjane.com.au/load-speed-ratings.html) which along with every other one I've seen shows 1650kg = a load rating number of '125', so I am looking for tyres rated 125L or better.
As the wheels I am running (Alan's blings) are rated 1800kg they easily cover the 1650kg requirement [hoping this qualifies as this post not being a hijack
, apologies Alan if otherwise].The tyres are a little more confusing as there are 2 numbers on them. For instance my tyres are 315/75/R16 Goodyear Duratracs and are rated 127/124Q. The first number (127) is the rating when used as a single, the second (124) is the rating when used as a dually with 4 on the axle and the 'Q' is the speed rating. So as a single 127Q is more than adequate for the 125L rating I need and this tyre and wheel is a perfectly valid combination for my truck
It was also handy (for piece of mind) to confirm this via the Mitsu spec sheet for my exact model and on finding it nothing contradicts the above. Note in the image below the model (exactly with all numbers and letters matching) is listed at the top left and the REAR AXLE section states "Capacity - Axle: 3300kg" and "Load Rating - ADR 24: 3300kg". Under wheels and tyres, whilst the load info was for the duallys, the speed rating at the end shows 'L'. To find this sheet I just had to do some googling etc but everything you need should be on the truck so this is not required, just reassuring.
So my advice to people is not to listen to any advice about this for your truck that is not tailored for it and if in doubt ask an engineer or your state's transport dept, not a salesperson with a vested interest in telling you that what they sell is the only legal option.
You'll also notice that although mine is the crewcab, under the models on this sheet is a couple of single cabs with exactly the same load specs so it may well be that your truck does not require a 4.3T rear rated setup and you can enjoy a much wider choice of rims and tyres than you think.
Just another point on towing discussion, this is in the spec sheet too, notice beside all of the covered models says GCM 6500kg off road and 7500kg on road. This is the gross combined mass of truck and anything towed. It's a good idea to check this for your truck also as going over these limits may also invalidate insurance claims.
Hope this helps,
-Andy
It's all good feedback, thats what the forum's are for.
as Andy says check your vehicle plates as they seem to vary between models, and I also agree with john if your trucks been derated no matter what suspension wheels or tyres you have you cant exceed 4500kg.
Noted, i worked for a company who carried out mechanical repairs to damaged or stolen cars for insurance companies for 10 years, not once did they ever question tyre ratings suspension lift or mods of any kind even when brought to there attention, they did not careless, just repair it.
as Andy says check your vehicle plates as they seem to vary between models, and I also agree with john if your trucks been derated no matter what suspension wheels or tyres you have you cant exceed 4500kg.
Noted, i worked for a company who carried out mechanical repairs to damaged or stolen cars for insurance companies for 10 years, not once did they ever question tyre ratings suspension lift or mods of any kind even when brought to there attention, they did not careless, just repair it.
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Hey Andy couldn't agree more. Ask anyone that has that has been caught by the transport department for trying to get away with under rated tyres when they could have saved alot of time and heartache in the first place. Transport aren't just checking tyre load ratings now either but wheel load ratings too. The Maryborough branch of Qld Transport Department is right on to it cause they see so many FG's around this area set up for the beach. Whatever answer you get from Transport, get it in writing cause some inspectors aren't up with it. I know this cause everytime a new Transport inspector starts up there in that office, one of the beach buses will get a defect notice on their annual inspection (a bit tougher on buses) and I have to send all the supporting ADR compliance paperwork regarding single wheels up there to clear it up.
I'm sure you realize this but the 637 have a lower load rating for the rear axle than the models that came after but it isn't just the load rating of a tyre that can make it legal or not.......it's the rolling diameter as well. Once you increase this by a very small percentage over whatever is on the tyre placard, you have to either have some sort of engineer's approval or an SSM plate (which will also come with an uprated tyre placard) BTW an SSM can only happen with a new truck. The reason rolling diameter is stated and cannot be exceeded is because when new FG's are originally tested as they come into the country to meet NB2* category ADR standards, the brakes are only tested with the OEM tyres (in this case, 7.50R / 16). As soon as you exceed this, you or your engineer will need to also prove it can still meet the ADR standards (which is a big ask unless you go through the whole ADR testing proceedure, see pic). For an FG 649 or 84, we can only meet ADR's with a diameter equivalent to a 285/70R/19.5 and even then, we have to upgrade certain brake components and speedo re-calibration as part of the deal to allow fitting of that diameter tyre.
So also ask Transport re: how tall you can go too and see what they come back with.
*NB2 is light truck over 4.5T.
Last edited: