canter rims

[offroadpup]

I'm sure you realize this but the 637 have a lower load rating for the rear axle than the models that came after but it isn't just the load rating of a tyre that can make it legal or not.......it's the rolling diameter as well.

I wasn't actually sure which model had what rating, this is my first canter so I'm no expert on them as such.

Nod to the rolling diameter (in Australia) too, purely from memory its 15mm only in QLD and may be the same in all states. Track too is limited, it can only be increased by 50mm (again from memory so check) and less if not a beam axle and must not be reduced at all, not even 1mm. Not sure how singles that alter the rear track get away with it without eng as it would need to be changed by ~100mm as a guess to line them up with the front. Perhaps they widen the front instead ?

Strictly speaking width is also limited to 50% above the widest option for that vehicle too and again less if not a beam axle. There seems to be no end of gotchas. Every day I see Patrols running around with 37" x 14s with ~200mm wider track front and back and cant imagine how they last on the road for more than a week, but they seem too :s

 

[whatcharterboat]

I wasn't actually sure which model had what rating,

Hey, no worries at all Andy......I never knew that the 637 had a dual (on & off road) GCM rating so we both picked up something. BTW your brakes are much the same as the later ones but the rear diff is a little smaller...roughly about a 10" crown wheel compared to a 11 3/4" so that must be the reason for the lighter rating. The latest FGB 71 has bigger rear brakes and is rated much higher again.

Nod to the rolling diameter (in Australia) too, purely from memory its 15mm only in QLD and may be the same in all states.

Yep.......what a good example I am, haha.....was defected for this on old Subaru a couple of years back. Regards John.


BTW....definitely wanted to apologise to Alan for possibly getting this thread off track. Sorry mate.

 

[offroadpup]

BTW....definitely wanted to apologise to Alan for possibly getting this thread off track. Sorry mate.

And from me, and to get it back on track; Bad weather broke on the Goldie today so I got mine all mounted fully today and gave it a bit of a highway run to see how it feels and the verdict is that Im very happy with them. Ride feels great and truck drive perfectly. Still look great too. I whacked a bit of autosol on the back ones to see how they come up and they polish up very very well.

I grabbed a pic too while out as previous ones weren't much chop due to lack of room in my yard;

 

[alan]

Looks great Andy, are they your tyre marks on the road:smiley_drive:

 

[offroadpup]

Looks great Andy, are they your tyre marks on the road:smiley_drive:

Of course! :rally_guys:

 

[blackduck]

Hooning in a canter
what next?? :victory:

 

[Bandicoot]

Stu
Not great mileage. I sold them at 32 000 km having rotated only 4 around. I calculated I would have got about 40 000 km from a set of 4, so I guess that's 50 000 from a set of 5 if I'd rotated all 5. I guess 40 000 km isn't "bad" but it's not exactly outstanding either.
Rick

 

[Bandicoot]

Anthony
You can get an EC as 4.5 t GVM or 6 t GVM (although I don't know of any LWB ECs being sold as 4.5 tonners, only the SWBs). Identical vehicle and identical axle ratings. It's only the GVM that is different. Basically it's just a registration issue to keep the vehicle within a passenger car licence. The vehicle itself is identical.
No, you definitely only need tyre and rim ratings to meet the GVM as registered not the axle ratings. However, you may be correct if the vehicle is not done via the 2nd stage manufacture process.
The ECs are 2nd stage manufacture which means they have to have every aspect of them approved nationally, including tyres and rims.
Rick

 

[Bandicoot]

Stu
I don't think that's quite correct for 2nd stage manufacture. Quoting from "A GUIDE TO THE CERTIFICATION OF NEW VEHICLES – TYPE APPROVAL" from the Aust Government:
"The Australian Government maintains jurisdiction over road vehicles up to the point of first supply to the Australian market. Once a vehicle has been supplied to the market, it is “in service”. State and territory governments are responsible for continued regulation after this point (eg, vehicle registration, roadworthiness, the approval of modifications to vehicles in service)."
Hence if Toyota want to sell Landcruisers in Oz, they get the type approval done in Canberra and then they can automatically sell them in any Aust state or territory; they don't need to ask for approval from the Qld government etc. However, once the vehicle is "sold" then any modifications etc are approved by the States. So if someone buys new Landcruisers, modifies them, and then sells them, they must get Qld government approval of the modifications.
The problem with this is that each State has different standards for allowable modifications!! I know this has been an issue with caravan manufacturers. Eg. you buy a brand new caravan in Qld and tow it immediately across to WA and need to get it registered over there. It fails because the requirements for size of links on the safety chains are different!! This sort of problem.
However, 2nd stage manufacture is quite different. When I purchased my EC it is not by way of me (or even EarthCruiser) buying a Canter, registering the Canter, and then installing a motorhome body and doing the SRW conversion etc. The Canter actually travels around on "dealer's plates" during the manufacturing process and, once the vehicle is finally finished, is then sold as a brand new vehicle complianced in Canberra not in Qld. It does not need any Qld approvals at all (or any other State). The date of my new (Fuso) warranty is not the date the Canter was supplied by Fuso (Zupps) to EC, but the date EC supplies the vehicle to me (a few months later).
Rick

 

[blackduck]

Rick

my comment was based on my experience as I bought my truck as a cab chassis from Zupps in Qld and set about the body install, seating and relevant compliance myself while julia might approve the cab chassis, the mods were all capt bligh. as the truck remains registered in Qld this isnt a problem although i believe other states may require different certification
so far travelling round the interest has been in the vehicle itself, not the compliance.

 

[Bandicoot]

For any given suspension, a tyre running at 50 psi has a much larger (double?) footprint on the ground than a 19.5 inch tyre (typically running at 90 to 110 psi for the same load). This means much better adhesion to the road surface so better braking and cornering. It also means a much softer better ride for the occupants.
Rick

I have a good friend who recently bought a 4x4 motorhome with 6 t GVM and 19.5 inch wheels. It came with Toyo 285/70R19.5 casings rated 145/143M rated at 2900 kg. He told me his owner's manual that came with the vehicle said recommended highway pressures should be 82 psi on front and 102 psi on rear. In "corrugations" he said he has been told to use 76/80 front/rear, for "off-road" conditions 73/76 and on "soft sand" 47/65.

The Michelins on 16 inch and Hankooks on 17 inch both have maximum cold inflation pressures of 65 psi and right through the range of road conditions/surfaces above, would be about 1/2 the operating pressures of the 19.5 inch tyres. Unless I'm missing something this must mean for vehicles with the same axle loadings front and rear, the vehicle with 19.5 inch rubber must have a smaller (roughly half the sized) footprint on the ground and therefore, when road-holding is based on adhesion between road and tyre, surely this must mean the 19.5 inch tyres will "let go" earlier than the 16 or 17 inch, and must surely also have a much rougher ride due to the double tyre pressures???
Rick

 

[SkiFreak]

We seem to be morphing a little from the original topic, but hey, I don't mind...

i believe other states may require different certification

Let me set the mood by saying that certification of vehicle modifications in Australia is total rubbish!

There is no denying that companies that can do Second Stage Manufacturing (SSM) definitely make life easier for the end user, as these modifications are Department of Infrastructure and Transport (DOTARS) approved. This means that it is a federal certification valid in all states. That is a really big plus if you move to a different state and can be a used as a selling point too.
Any modification that requires an engineer to certify it is "technically" only valid in the state in which it was certified. This is the problem that most of us have to deal with.

Given that some of the major modifications done to my truck were carried out by ATW in Queensland I was concerned about this because I live in the ACT where our motor registry is renowned for being one of the most painful.
The engineer who certified the work on my truck actually contacted the ACT motor registry to ensure that the engineering report met all their requirements. I also confirmed that this engineer was on the ACT's "approved engineers" list, which he was. This made the process of getting my truck registered in the ACT relatively straight forward, but it was only that way because I did all the groundwork first. The sad thing is that I needed to do this.

In my experience, motor vehicle inspectors regularly say no because they can; apparently it's easier that way. The worst thing is that they don't all play by the same rules; it depends on who you get on the day, which really sux!
I was fortunate that the inspector that I dealt with was excellent. I had been to the motor registry on days when he was not there and got totally stuffed around. I quickly learned that I should deal with him and him alone.
The point I am trying to make here is that if you plan on getting any modification work carried out in a state other than the one you live in, do your due diligence. This is extremely important if you intend to purchase a vehicle that has had modifications done in another state. If possible you should get copies of any engineering reports and have an inspector give their opinion of the modifications and confirm that they would be legal in your state. If you don't you could be up for the costs to get the vehicle re-engineered. I was also told that engineering reports were only valid for eight years (in the ACT at least); after that it was at the inspector's discretion.

Getting vehicle modifications done in Australia is a real can of worms. The biggest problem, as I see it, is that there are no definitive rules; they are all guidelines and therefore open to interpretation by the person reading them.
The challenge is to find someone that interprets the guidelines in a way that works for you...

 

[bptp7270]

Hi Rick,

I have the 285/70/19.5 Toyos and I run them on everything at 65psi. The spec sheet that accompanies them is too "tiresome", pardon the pun.

Anthony

I have a good friend who recently bought a 4x4 motorhome with 6 t GVM and 19.5 inch wheels. It came with Toyo 285/70R19.5 casings rated 145/143M rated at 2900 kg. He told me his owner's manual that came with the vehicle said recommended highway pressures should be 82 psi on front and 102 psi on rear. In "corrugations" he said he has been told to use 76/80 front/rear, for "off-road" conditions 73/76 and on "soft sand" 47/65.

The Michelins on 16 inch and Hankooks on 17 inch both have maximum cold inflation pressures of 65 psi and right through the range of road conditions/surfaces above, would be about 1/2 the operating pressures of the 19.5 inch tyres. Unless I'm missing something this must mean for vehicles with the same axle loadings front and rear, the vehicle with 19.5 inch rubber must have a smaller (roughly half the sized) footprint on the ground and therefore, when road-holding is based on adhesion between road and tyre, surely this must mean the 19.5 inch tyres will "let go" earlier than the 16 or 17 inch, and must surely also have a much rougher ride due to the double tyre pressures???
Rick

 

[whatcharterboat]

I have a good friend who recently bought a 4x4 motorhome with 6 t GVM and 19.5 inch wheels. It came with Toyo 285/70R19.5 casings rated 145/143M rated at 2900 kg. He told me his owner's manual that came with the vehicle said recommended highway pressures should be 82 psi on front and 102 psi on rear. In "corrugations" he said he has been told to use 76/80 front/rear, for "off-road" conditions 73/76 and on "soft sand" 47/65.

I'll be seeing him very soon.......and will make sure he is reading the Toyo chart correctly. Maybe he is reading the chart and calculating on the weight per axle instead of per tyre as it reads.....................hhhmmmm. This is too high for the GVM of his vehicle. I know of an overloaded FG (it's over 7T) that only runs 95psi rear. Toyo provide a very clear psi/axle load/maximum speed chart especially for the tyres. Even if it is a bit "tiresome"!!

he Michelins on 16 inch and Hankooks on 17 inch both have maximum cold inflation pressures of 65 psi and right through the range of road conditions/surfaces above, would be about 1/2 the operating pressures of the 19.5 inch tyres. Unless I'm missing something this must mean for vehicles with the same axle loadings front and rear, the vehicle with 19.5 inch rubber must have a smaller (roughly half the sized) footprint on the ground and therefore, when road-holding is based on adhesion between road and tyre, surely this must mean the 19.5 inch tyres will "let go" earlier than the 16 or 17 inch, and must surely also have a much rougher ride due to the double tyre pressures???

As I still claim, the psi is not double ....also there is a lot more that comes into play with the size of the footprint, the amount of contact with the road and the "handling" of a tyre than just the psi........rolling diameter, tread block : valley ratio, sidewall %, etc. As an example, have a look at the pic below. Shows the skid marks of the rear 16" XZL's under a 100kph stop at 4.8T tare weight...... See how it's unloaded the weight from the rear axle, then locked up as a result and stopped only on the 2 middle knobs. The front tyres would have compressed down so much (or deformed) with the sidewall flex in this situation at the beginning of the stop ...... the 19.5's in question leave an almost full width (285MM) strip of rubber in the same controlled test conditions and with a braking effort more balanced between front and rear. I know this is under braking ( and we were talking braking before too) but on the road a 100 R tyre can move around and deform all over the place ....hence my comment about pushing on the bullbar and watching the sidewalls move around. This is one of the reasons why road cars , race cars and even rally cars on dirt have gone to the lowest profile tyres they seem to be able get away with.

Not talking about airing down for offroad conditions above ....am only talking about on road handling and safety here.

Regarding pressures being half for the same load. This just doesn't make sense to me. It's the air pressure that holds the load......a simple mathematical equation. Heavier plys allow higher pressures which allow higher loads. The downside is heavier plys also generate more heat if under inflated and allowed to flex excessively so the speeds must be lower if you are airing down, but running high sidewall tyres with more sidewall flex at lower psi was never meant to replace suspension movement and this was only one of the reasons that we gave up on them years ago.

We are getting way offtrack now into a whole 100R16 Vs 70R19.5 debate.

 

[blackduck]

The biggest problem, as I see it, is that there are no definitive rules; ...

And here lies the problem
my experience driving interstate heavy vehicles has proven the stupidity of the regulatory bodies in this great country
for those not aware, we have a national set of laws for heavy vehicles agreed by all states for the safe operation of heavy vehicles on the nations highways.
problem is the states were then able to manipulate the legislation to customise it to the particular state
once again 7 sets of laws for the one country
what we need is legislation governing all licencing and vehicles relating to the whole country not one set of rules for each state
of course this will never happen
but wouldnt it be nice to think your truck mods including tyres, wheels and suspension would be legal and accepted no matter where you live
after all theres only 21 million people here. We're not over populated just over governed.
now back to the rim debate