Charging the house batteries

[dwh]

Is this new or just new to me?

http://www.nationalluna.com/battery_systems.htm

Yea, quite a few people around here use that unit and like it a lot. 85a continuous duty rating on the solenoid. I noticed the other day, that Samlex now has one as well - 12v/24v, 160a continuous rating (480a peak), waterproof, has switched bypass capability (auto, hard on, hard off) and dual sensing:

http://samlexsolar.com/rv-power-products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=478

 

[Mock Tender]

The more I read the more it looks like none of these solutions will work on the newer FG's. Once the ECU decides it doesn't have the exact volts- it may jump right to limp or shut-down mode. So any changing what the ECU sees from what I can find out is a dead end. Turns out the new Fords are the same way. I started a new thread hoping to solicit actual 2012+ FG owner responses.

 

[DiploStrat]

Parthian Shot

The more I read the more it looks like none of these solutions will work on the newer FG's. Once the ECU decides it doesn't have the exact volts- it may jump right to limp or shut-down mode. So any changing what the ECU sees from what I can find out is a dead end. Turns out the new Fords are the same way. I started a new thread hoping to solicit actual 2012+ FG owner responses.

I'll stay out of your new thread, except to echo what others have said, ask Earth Cruiser and All Terrain Warriors. This ain't rocket science and folks do it all the time.

According to Mitsubishi USA, your 2012 Canter 4x4 has two 12v maintenance free stater batteries and a 140A alternator. The starter batteries as listed as being 750CCA, which probably means that they are about 75Ah each. In this case, those maintenance free batteries are most likely to be some form of AGM or perhaps, Calcium, battery. In either case, slap a voltmeter on your truck with the engine running at about 20C/70F. I'll bet you get a voltage somewhere between 14 and 15 volts, which is right where you want to be for an AGM or conventional open flooded lead acid battery. (Lithium, as has been noted, may be another issue.) 140A should be more than enough to handle a 400Ah AGM battery bank, if only because it is actually rather hard to get a camper battery bank to take more than about 150A for very long.

The simplest, and for my money, the best, solution is an intelligent relay rated at 150A or more and appropriate cables. I like the Blue Sea line of ACR, but there are many other options out there.) Assuming that you want to pass 100A some 10 feet, one way, you are looking at about a 4/0 AWG cable. (Which you can make up with a single cable or multiple runs of smaller cable.) This will give you less than 0.5v drop - when your batteries are 50% discharged - and even less when they are more charged. (See dwh's many posts on the relationship between voltage drop and amp flow.) Assuming a 400Ah bank, depleted 50%, you will need to recoup around 220Ah. Grossly, you might expect to recoup about 100Ah in the first hour, maybe 50Ah in the next hour, and ever lower amounts thereafter. Thus you can see the value of a solar kit or shore power to supply those long hours of absorb charge. Most intelligent relays have the advantage of being bidirectional, which means that they would share the solar or shore charge with the starter batteries, as my truck is doing right now.

If you don't like that idea, then you can go with a battery to battery charger from CTEK, Sterling, or others. In this case, you will get 20 to 40A per hour. This is why so folks use these in pairs. They may slightly out perform expectations as they they can compensate for voltage drop if placed close to the batteries or if they have remote sensing. This is a well proven route. Note that you will still have to wire everything up with the same, heavy cables. I rather like the CTEK option because it integrates a relay for faster bulk charge. If you go this way, you may want to wire up a secondary charger, like one of these, http://www.lslproducts.net/ALS_Overview_Page.html to share the charge back with the starter batteries.

Finally, you could go with a second alternator and dedicated regulator. There is nothing wrong with the solution, Pugslyyy's set up works quite well. It is just a bit pricey and requires more work.

None of these solutions has any impact on your vehicle's electronic control systems - they simply see a voltage drop in the starter battery and produce amps and volts until it goes away.

Seems to me that you are making this out to be harder than it really is. Battery chargers don't provide cosmic rays, they simply provide amps at a given voltage. For a fast charge you want as high a voltage as you can get without causing the battery to gas or vent and as many amps as you can get without causing the battery to overheat.

As the folks at Lifeline stressed to me, the hardest thing about charging a battery is charging long enough. That is because, while we tend to use metaphors like air and water, battery charging is, in fact, a chemical reaction and it takes a long time for the surface charge to spread through the entire battery.

Best wishes.

 

[Mock Tender]

DiploStrat- You are correct- most everyone that commented is correct. I would be happy doing most of any of the above. And I do have some experience with charging batteries- went from the East Coast of the US to S. America and then onto New Zealand with a sailing cat that I had placed 6 x 140 watt panels and 2 x MPPT's with 4 gauge tinned marine style wire (run was pretty long), Onan 5.5 KW, and alternator charging when what little we motored. But, there I had a big area to work with and simple things like shunts, fuses, isolators and most importantly a fully programable pro-remote from Blue Sky Energy made it an almost set and forget system. I really only had to water the batteries and I had a watering system set up for that. Nothing complicated.

But a 2015 Fuso FG is a whole lot different. And so far, no one with a 2012+ (as of last I saw) has responded with what has actually worked for them. According to FUSO US corporate NJ, three fuso dealers, it could be possible, but they have no experience, no testing and a strong caution about warranty issues.

I don't have Pugslyyy's room in the engine compartment. On a positive note I have found a guy in Florida that can turn a N-type alternator into a P-type alternator. So if I can figure out how the ECU determines what is worth shutting down for and what is not- I may now have a easy Balmar solution- almost plug and play.

Cheers

I got a message from Michelle at Earth Cruiser to call back mid-week. ATW I haven't tried.

 

[DiploStrat]

But a 2015 Fuso FG is a whole lot different. And so far, no one with a 2012+ (as of last I saw) has responded with what has actually worked for them. According to FUSO US corporate NJ, three fuso dealers, it could be possible, but they have no experience, no testing and a strong caution about warranty issues.

Now you REALLY have my attention - how is the Fuso different? You have the truck, no? What voltage do you measure at the battery terminals when they are on charge? Does the label indicate what kind of battery they are?

Nothing I that I am proposing gets between the alternator and the starter batteries. The Fuso's alternator/regulator system must be capable of charging those batteries. The only way I can see a problem is if the camper batteries required a voltage that was dramatically higher or lower than the voltage provided to the starter batteries. With the widespread adoption of AGM batteries as starter batteries, this is less and less of a problem.

As has been noted, the original raison d'être for the Sterling and other B2B's was because the charging voltage of most vehicles was too low to properly charge a large camper bank, especially if that bank was at the end of a large cable. Now the problem may come back if we discover that Lithium cells really need a 12-13v charge. But for AGM's and open FLA, there is very little justification for anything other than a cable and a relay. And the relay is really only because of the mismatch between a starter battery and a deep cycle battery.

 

[4x4Truckoverland]

I have a second alternator for my house batteries, completely separate from the truck system.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/toughone-alternator-remanufactured-120-amps-p7814-4.3/3100324-P

It's a near a universal size as you can get - cheap and easily replaceable.

I have a heavy duty Blue Sea 1, 2, 1+2, Off switch that allows me to bridge the house/start batteries in emergencies (failure of a bank or an alternator)

I’m trying to find a higher amp alternator for my FG649. How did this alternator go long term? Do u know if it could be a replacement for my FG649 alternator?
Thanks

 

[PKDreamers]

I’m trying to find a higher amp alternator for my FG649. How did this alternator go long term? Do u know if it could be a replacement for my FG649 alternator?
Thanks

Hi Try these guys.

Rapid Power Alternators

We specialise in OEM quality alternators built for emergency, utility, mining, military, refrigerated delivery, transport, and recreational vehicles.

www.rapidpower.com.au