Clutch’s deep thoughts thread...

[Clutch]

Dodge (now Ram) and Jeep are an interesting case study. In general, their reliability rankings have been subpar at best over the last decade or so.

I think there is an argument to be made their reliability has improved as of late, but its still not necessarily competitive with some of the other big-name OEM's. But the weird thing is that certain vehicles within the Ram and Jeep lineup are considered to be among the most stalwart in their segments, despite the shortcomings of their brand overall. Jeep and Power Wagon would be 2 prime examples....neither vehicle is perfect by any stretch, but I wouldn't hesitate to own/abuse either one for the long term, out of warranty.

A little leery of the brand, but since a 3/4-1 ton. And this new Gladiator are a bit overbuilt...believe they would be ok.

 

[Clutch]

Had a client screw up the time. Got a 3 hour lunch today. Able to sneak in a little micro-overlanding.


Not a bad spot to eat lunch.

 

[PirateMcGee]

Funny thing is we just had that argument about the Cummins, about how it wasn't "American" made... And yet everyone has such a huge ********** over the Italian diesels... People are weird. To me, the whole Fiat and Chrysler partnership was the one of the weirdest things I can think of. And the Fiat cars are GARBAGE.




It's one of my favorite threads... So much derailment.

My 13' Fiat 500 Turbo (formally my wife's) has been completely reliable.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Guys who can afford them don't even use them.

In this case it's gal, says that was owned by an actress.

Icons don't seem to be aging well. Look at the rust on the fasteners. At that price it should be stainless or cadmium plated. Appears to be an early one, guessing they have since changed that, but still...

It kind of just looks like it was actually owned to me. Aluminum with that dull corroded look, not pristine anymore. Maybe it wasn't a daily driver but maybe not a garage queen only driven to show-and-shines either.

 

[Clutch]

In this case it's gal, says that was owned by an actress.

Good catch. Fricken missed that...and Angie Harmon to boot! I like her even more now...

It kind of just looks like it was actually owned to me. Aluminum with that dull corroded look, not pristine anymore. Maybe it wasn't a daily driver but maybe not a garage queen only driven to show-and-shines either.

It does look like it has been used...maybe in road salt use area??? Only has 3000 miles on it.

 

[battleaxe]

My 13' Fiat 500 Turbo (formally my wife's) has been completely reliable.

That's one of the only positives I've ever heard. My buddys mom bought one, and it spent more time in the dealership in the year she owned it than in her driveway. Electrical gremlins, transmission issues, ran like a bag of dicks. They settled and gave her a Dodge Journey (I'd have ran... ****** those things too)

A friend is a sales manager for Dodge here, and he's admitted that they have some serious problems overall. But nice to hear someone's enjoying them with no issues.

The fiat thing was the brainchild of the federal government... definitely an odd pairing.

Oof... That is odd.

Chinese made, but supposedly that engine is powering F-250's in certain overseas markets...I have more confidence in an American designed, Chinese made engine than I currently have in the Italian sourced ones. Don't get me wrong: the Italians make great sports cars, but for 4x4-levels of reliability, they are not my go-to engine builders. And yeah I definitely agree that Fiat cars, while charming, are not ones that I'd like to own for the longterm. The sooner Chrysler finds a way to escape that ownership structure, the better.

I think the only reason people were hyped about the 2.8l 'Duramax' and the 3.0l ecodiesel is because, until recently, they were the only diesel options in town (outside of the 3/4 ton segment). That's changing now. Ford is introducing a 3.0l 'Powerstroke' developed by their European division and GM is developing a new inline 6, supposedly developed within GM.

I do think the rebadging game is little disingenuous at times. The 2.8l 'Duramax' really has nothing to do with GM's joint operation with Isuzu. Likewise for the new 3.0l 'Powerstroke.'

Yeah I can see the hype given the lack of options. It's been said before, but it's interesting that Jeep wouldn't just go to Cummins given their history and relationship with Ram/Dodge.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yeah I can see the hype given the lack of options. It's been said before, but it's interesting that Jeep wouldn't just go to Cummins given their history and relationship with Ram/Dodge.

If I ran the world it sure would seem like a good idea to get FCA to help offset R&D bringing the 2.8R into current emissions compliance. It's win-win for Cummins, they could then sell EPA-legal repower kits to, oh, let's just say me.

 

[battleaxe]

In a perfect world... Right?

 

[bkg]

Speaking of Jeep quality... this makes me want to sell my Toyotas...


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1...3K-GlU51-gi1tOYrOTekpM0KLD1Hw0qzYg29Y9oBG7KHs

 

[battleaxe]

Haha, not my cup of tea. I like the powerplant though.

Screw it... I'm just gonna put an LS in my Taco next year.

 

[Todd780]

Speaking of Jeep quality... this makes me want to sell my Toyotas...


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1...3K-GlU51-gi1tOYrOTekpM0KLD1Hw0qzYg29Y9oBG7KHs

Wow. That's pretty nice!

 

[2025 deleted member]

Speaking of Jeep quality... this makes me want to sell my Toyotas...


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1...3K-GlU51-gi1tOYrOTekpM0KLD1Hw0qzYg29Y9oBG7KHs

Super nice, except they spent all that money and kept the front leaf springs.

 

[2025 deleted member]

Haha, not my cup of tea. I like the powerplant though.

Screw it... I'm just gonna put an LS in my Taco next year.

Ironic that the most reliable vehicles in the world usually get repowered with a Chevrolet.

 

[battleaxe]

Ironic that the most reliable vehicles in the world usually get repowered with a Chevrolet.

Ain't it though?

With the hardcore wheeling guys, it almost always seems to be a 4.3 or bigger, once they've dicked around with the 3.4's and such for a time.

I'd love to have a Toyota V8 in there, but I just can't justify the complexity of that. GM V8's are a dime a dozen, and are far cheaper than anything I've been able to find for a Toy V8.

 

[Clutch]

Speaking of Jeep quality... this makes me want to sell my Toyotas...


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1...3K-GlU51-gi1tOYrOTekpM0KLD1Hw0qzYg29Y9oBG7KHs

One of my all time favorite body styles.

My parents bought one brand new... biggest POS that we ever owned. Left us stranded multiple times...even over heated in the dead of winter heading out to go cross-country skiing.

Being in PA it rusted out, so we didn't have it long. Can't remember what we replace it with.

When I was 12-13 learning to drive...I ran a fence post down the side of it, mom wasn't too happy.

Look exactly like this but in red.

Ironic that the most reliable vehicles in the world usually get repowered with a Chevrolet.

That one is nice, but like this one better.

http://www.kyleevansdesign.com/76-shaggy/