Clutch’s deep thoughts thread...

phsycle

Adventurer
Well shoot, at those prices we should get one of each!

I must have a thing for green vehicles....like this one.

Ha, yeah, if you've got enough spending money to purchase one of those, you've probably got enough for two or three.

Even if I had enough expendable cash to buy one, I'd have a hard time driving the thing. Worried about dings, won't take it off road, and really just drive it around town every once in a while. Useless $300k oversized Matchbox toy.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
What corners do you think were cut? I haven't seen one in person, but it seems like they went overkill with the restoration: boxed the frame; axles from a newer 3/4 ton; front and rear locker options. I don't know that a Legacy PW is worth the current asking price, but it seems to be a quality build from the outside perspective.

Just kinda nit-picking. Leaf sprung, cheap batteries...poor battery location. Interiors aren't done well. Could of used better differentials.

Did you see that the rear shocks are fully compressed? Parking brake cables are routed poorly.

Should have a 6B instead of the 4B...at least for the money they are wanting.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Just kinda nit-picking. Leaf sprung, cheap batteries...poor battery location. Interiors aren't done well. Could of used better differentials.

Did you see that the rear shocks are fully compressed? Parking brake cables are routed poorly.

Should have a 6B instead of the 4B...at least for the money they are wanting.

4bt I think was the best fitment-wise. Plus, when its tuned properly, it offers more than enough torque to get up to realistic and safe speeds. Those vehicles were designed back in the day when anything much above 55 mph was considered reckless driving (at least in a truck).

I didn't notice the other issues, but I'll have to give the Leno video another look. I still think that a 4bt PW is a freaking sweet 4x4....its a piece of American history.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
I just wanted to acknowledge that this thread has been way more successful than I thought it would be. :D:D:D

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet! :D
4bt I think was the best fitment-wise. Plus, when its tuned properly, it offers more than enough torque to get up to realistic and safe speeds. Those vehicles were designed back in the day when anything much above 55 mph was considered reckless driving (at least in a truck).

I didn't notice the other issues, but I'll have to give the Leno video another look. I still think that a 4bt PW is a freaking sweet 4x4....its a piece of American history.

4B does fit better, but if I am dropping $200K on a vehicle like that.. want it pushing 1000 lbs of TQ, at least! ;)

Ohhh it is so fricken awesome, for sure.

With the Icons LC's for an example...you get brand new body, chassis....linked front and rear suspension. So for $200K+ think Legacy could of went a bit further with it.
 

battleaxe

Captain Obvious
What corners do you think were cut? I haven't seen one in person, but it seems like they went overkill with the restoration: boxed the frame; axles from a newer 3/4 ton; front and rear locker options. I don't know that a Legacy PW is worth the current asking price, but it seems to be a quality build from the outside perspective.





I'm somewhat familiar with the 2.8l's and 3.0l's origins.

Despite its lengthy service history, the 3.0l v6 ecodiesel is still a big unknown in my book: that engine has a decent trend of failures in the Ram 1500 (not just emissions, but actual engine failures too). Maybe FCA has really gone to town and addressed the known issues for this next iteration that will go into the Jeep Wrangler and new 1500....we'll have to wait and see.

I have not heard about the Aussie complaints regarding the 2.8l. That engine has also seen use in the overseas Jeep (including the J8), and I hadn't heard of any major issues in those platforms, but I haven't spent much time reading about the Aussie perspective. It seems decent enough in the Colorado platform, and honestly I think that engine (or at least that type of engine) is a much better fit for the Jeep, both in terms of size and torque delivery. We'll find out over the next 10 years how its longterm durability fares.

The real shame is that Cummins produces their own 2.8l diesel and could probably have developed a v6 or inline 5 for the midsized market, had FCA asked them to do so. I really do think FCA's growing reliance on VM Motori diesel engines is a big mistake in the long run. Cummins practically saved the Dodge truck brand back in the day, and its arguably a major reason for why their 3/4 ton's continue to sell well. I'm willing to give the 3.0l ecodiesel another chance, but so far it hasn't developed the best of reputations.

Funny thing is we just had that argument about the Cummins, about how it wasn't "American" made... And yet everyone has such a huge ********** over the Italian diesels... People are weird. To me, the whole Fiat and Chrysler partnership was the one of the weirdest things I can think of. And the Fiat cars are GARBAGE.


I just wanted to acknowledge that this thread has been way more successful than I thought it would be. :D:D:D

It's one of my favorite threads... So much derailment.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet! :D


4B does fit better, but if I am dropping $200K on a vehicle like that.. want it pushing 1000 lbs of TQ, at least! ;)

Ohhh it is so fricken awesome, for sure.

With the Icons LC's for an example...you get brand new body, chassis....linked front and rear suspension. So for $200K+ think Legacy could of went a bit further with it.

1000lb-ft I think would be beyond what most of those driveline components could handle, but I do see where you're coming from with regards to the price point. I think the better solution is to drop the price: $100k would still be a lot, but if I won the lottery I would consider paying that much for a 4bt-equipped, double locker, WWII-era PW....I mean how else would I be able to get my caramel macchiato?
 

bkg

Explorer
Funny thing is we just had that argument about the Cummins, about how it wasn't "American" made... And yet everyone has such a huge ********** over the Italian diesels... People are weird. To me, the whole Fiat and Chrysler partnership was the one of the weirdest things I can think of. And the Fiat cars are GARBAGE.




It's one of my favorite threads... So much derailment.

The fiat thing was the brainchild of the federal government... definitely an odd pairing.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Funny thing is we just had that argument about the Cummins, about how it wasn't "American" made... And yet everyone has such a huge ********** over the Italian diesels... People are weird. To me, the whole Fiat and Chrysler partnership was the one of the weirdest things I can think of. And the Fiat cars are GARBAGE.

Chinese made, but supposedly that engine is powering F-250's in certain overseas markets...I have more confidence in an American designed, Chinese made engine than I currently have in the Italian sourced ones. Don't get me wrong: the Italians make great sports cars, but for 4x4-levels of reliability, they are not my go-to engine builders. And yeah I definitely agree that Fiat cars, while charming, are not ones that I'd like to own for the longterm. The sooner Chrysler finds a way to escape that ownership structure, the better.

I think the only reason people were hyped about the 2.8l 'Duramax' and the 3.0l ecodiesel is because, until recently, they were the only diesel options in town (outside of the 3/4 ton segment). That's changing now. Ford is introducing a 3.0l 'Powerstroke' developed by their European division and GM is developing a new inline 6, supposedly developed within GM.

I do think the rebadging game is little disingenuous at times. The 2.8l 'Duramax' really has nothing to do with GM's joint operation with Isuzu. Likewise for the new 3.0l 'Powerstroke.'
 

Clutch

<---Pass
Ha, yeah, if you've got enough spending money to purchase one of those, you've probably got enough for two or three.

Even if I had enough expendable cash to buy one, I'd have a hard time driving the thing. Worried about dings, won't take it off road, and really just drive it around town every once in a while. Useless $300k oversized Matchbox toy.

Guys who can afford them don't even use them.

Even if I had a windfall, don't think I would use it either...


Icons don't seem to be aging well. Look at the rust on the fasteners. At that price it should be stainless or cadmium plated. Appears to be an early one, guessing they have since changed that, but still...

https://www.ebth.com/items/5816430-icon-fj40-12

IMG_6774.jpg
 
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Clutch

<---Pass
1000lb-ft I think would be beyond what most of those driveline components could handle, but I do see where you're coming from with regards to the price point. I think the better solution is to drop the price: $100k would still be a lot, but if I won the lottery I would consider paying that much for a 4bt-equipped, double locker, WWII-era PW....I mean how else would I be able to get my caramel macchiato?

Toss in the drive train from a modern Ram 2500/3500 is my thoughts.


"I mean how else would I be able to get my caramel macchiato?"

:LOL:
 
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Dalko43

Explorer
Ok, lets take arguably the two worst companies known for poor reliability...and pair them

Dodge (now Ram) and Jeep are an interesting case study. In general, their reliability rankings have been subpar at best over the last decade or so.

I think there is an argument to be made their reliability has improved as of late, but its still not necessarily competitive with some of the other big-name OEM's. But the weird thing is that certain vehicles within the Ram and Jeep lineup are considered to be among the most stalwart in their segments, despite the shortcomings of their brand overall. Jeep and Power Wagon would be 2 prime examples....neither vehicle is perfect by any stretch, but I wouldn't hesitate to own/abuse either one for the long term, out of warranty.
 

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