Cost of an Alignment, setting all 8 control arms, and pinion angle?

[Mitch502]

OP, driveline vibrations would mostly be from your angles, I always forget how short the rear shaft is on jeeps. As you said, probably won't be an issue, I just deal a lot with lifted trucks and big tires, I know how they can do funky things at highway speeds.

Yea, I learned quickly that every single jeep seems to be different in how it behaves....this is the thread I'm going off of...
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/rear-driveshaft-too-short-5-5-lift-1127576/

I'm not planning on wheeling hard, and extreme abuse. This will be overland-esque, with the main focus on getting to remote spots to camp/hike/etc...not go through deep mud bogs and catch some air time...

 

[thethePete]

Then you shouldn't have to worry about re-aligning it much more than every year or two. You should request an alignment print out if possible. It'll show you your before and after angles for your alignment angles. It won't show you pinion angle, but you should be able to glance at that under the truck and see if it is even remotely close, and if you used a "kit" to lift it instead of piecing together parts, it shouldn't be an issue anyway because the angles would've been desgined into the length of the arms.

Looking forward to your reports.

 

[Mitch502]

Then you shouldn't have to worry about re-aligning it much more than every year or two. You should request an alignment print out if possible. It'll show you your before and after angles for your alignment angles. It won't show you pinion angle, but you should be able to glance at that under the truck and see if it is even remotely close, and if you used a "kit" to lift it instead of piecing together parts, it shouldn't be an issue anyway because the angles would've been desgined into the length of the arms.

Looking forward to your reports.

Thanks for the help/info. I have IRO lift + 2" spacers, and then Core 4x4 adjustable arms, so it's pieced together. They told me yesterday that I needed wheel bearings before they could properly align it. I was planning on waiting a few more weeks to do them, as they weren't terrible, but alas, I changed both wheel bearings in the parking lot of a car wash in about an hour total today. Came apart quickly as I had them apart for the ball joints less than 4 days ago.

I'm assuming they're going to get it aligned tomorrow (Thursday) but I dropped it off with the caveat of them telling me it could be next week. We'll see...

 

[jeep-N-montero]

5.5in on short arms is just asking for trouble, good luck though.

 

[Mitch502]

5.5in on short arms is just asking for trouble, good luck though.

I read a lot of mixed reviews on this. I understand the flex and ride quality will not be the same as with a long arm kit. What other troubles can I run into? Keep in mind I won't be doing constant rough trails everytime I go out, and will most likely rarely flex fully.

 

[thethePete]

On short arms, you'll have some of the issues I outlined earlier. Your castor (which effects your straightline stability and steeringwheel returnability) will be change significantly through suspension travel, and you'll get bump-steer as one side goes over a bump and the other does not. The longer arms are designed to make the axle swing on a larger radius which minimizes the angle changes through the suspension travel. Basically, picture a shopping cart vs a long, stretched out chopper motorcycle. One is very darty, the other steers like a boat and has good straightline stability. These are extreme examples of castor. It won't wear your tires any different, just effects drivability.

You'll likely be fine with this setup, but it will be a compromise. You would notice a difference if you got into a jeep with long arms and took the two for a drive down a bumpy paved road, or in max flex situations.

They may also have a hard time keeping your pinion angles happy through the whole suspension travel because the arms swing at a different arc than your drive shaft.

They wouldn't want to do the alignment with any play in the wheel bearings because it can effect the readings of the alignment heads and make their alignment inaccurate. I usually turn alignments away if there are any worn components too. It's just good practice.

 

[Mitch502]

Once again, thank you for your insight

 

[K2ZJ]

I read a lot of mixed reviews on this. I understand the flex and ride quality will not be the same as with a long arm kit. What other troubles can I run into? Keep in mind I won't be doing constant rough trails everytime I go out, and will most likely rarely flex fully.

I assume this is a ZJ from your sig? What size tires are you going to run? If you are not planning on doing a lot of rock crawling or hard trails the need for such a tall lift to clear large tires seems a bit much. I had all 8 RE short arms on 4.5" lift, the ride was rough. I now have long arms on the same 33's, the ride is night and day. If you are willing to trim your fenders a bit you can run large tires on the 3.5" and skip the spacers. If you are really only doing trails to camp and hike you would have a better time getting there if your ride is smoother and will likely go more.

Wranglers have a short rear driveshaft, the rear on a ZJ is longer than the front so you shouldn't get to many vibes from the rear. The CV front shaft is a good thing to swap out, ,they don't like lifts.

 

[Mitch502]

I assume this is a ZJ from your sig? What size tires are you going to run? If you are not planning on doing a lot of rock crawling or hard trails the need for such a tall lift to clear large tires seems a bit much. I had all 8 RE short arms on 4.5" lift, the ride was rough. I now have long arms on the same 33's, the ride is night and day. If you are willing to trim your fenders a bit you can run large tires on the 3.5" and skip the spacers. If you are really only doing trails to camp and hike you would have a better time getting there if your ride is smoother and will likely go more.

Wranglers have a short rear driveshaft, the rear on a ZJ is longer than the front so you shouldn't get to many vibes from the rear. The CV front shaft is a good thing to swap out, ,they don't like lifts.

I'm running 285/75/16s, so just under 33" and about 11.5" wide on the stock rims. I don't want to trim the fenders at all. The jeep is too nice right now for me to do it.

Front driveshaft will be swapped out within the next week or so. I've read any 4.0 zj had the u joint style ave is a direct swap with yoke and shaft? Can you verify this?


Thanks for the input as well!

 

[K2ZJ]

With narrow 33's, setting your bumpstops with less travel and your steering stops correct, I think 3.5 would give you a much better ride. My $0.02 for what you want do. You already have the tires, but the bb and 31's would be best my recommendation, but it doesn't look as cool.

As for the driveshaft, I don't think they are. I know the rear for a V8 is different than the 6, I assume the same holds true for the front. There may be enough slip in the shaft to be a direct swap, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Mitch502]

Alright. I am going to have to do some more research before I head to the junkyard. I remember reading that any 4.0 ZJ front shaft would fit, but I also remember reading something about it being 96+ that fit, but that may have been 96+ Cherokee...

I am going to keep saying thanks for the insight because it really is helpful.

I would like a nice ride, but honestly, a nice ride isn't worth the money right now to me. In a few years or something I might consider it if I'm not happy with the SA's. I know everything I read on the internet isn't true, but it is the best place to research and find out what has worked for others. If my tires weren't literally brand new I might also consider dropping to 32" or so. Too late though!

 

[K2ZJ]

Alright. I am going to have to do some more research before I head to the junkyard. I remember reading that any 4.0 ZJ front shaft would fit, but I also remember reading something about it being 96+ that fit, but that may have been 96+ Cherokee...

I am going to keep saying thanks for the insight because it really is helpful.

I would like a nice ride, but honestly, a nice ride isn't worth the money right now to me. In a few years or something I might consider it if I'm not happy with the SA's. I know everything I read on the internet isn't true, but it is the best place to research and find out what has worked for others. If my tires weren't literally brand new I might also consider dropping to 32" or so. Too late though!

What more would it cost you to not install the BB? I agree you have the larger tire already, try them on with the 3.5 and see if it rubs or not.

I have the I6 and I used a Cherokee front DS for the swap and it fit fine. My DS went out on a trip from CO to NY on a Sunday afternoon in Ohio. Loads of fun.

 

[Mitch502]

You make a good point. I may see how it is now (about to go pick it up now) and if I think I can squeeze by with 3.5 or 4.5 I may try it and see.

 

[K2ZJ]

Let us know how it works out. Also check out Grand Slam West, you're invited!

 

[Mitch502]

The ride isn't bad at all in my opinion. I'm sure all the factory stuff was worn out anyway. I'd say the ride is stiffer, but way less body roll and drifting around than before.

No real vibrations. Haven't driven on the highway much, but so far my only complaint is a clicking sound even moving slow. I'm pretty sure it's the front driveshaft.

I'll update as time goes on. Thanks for the invite! (Final price was $250 by the way, they said it took them 4 people to adjust the control arms)