Crew cab version of the Fuso or like?
- Thread starter Dmarchand
- Start date
mhiscox
Exp. Leader Emeritus
Just want to remind everyone how many places you can go with 2WD when the weather is decent and how much recovery gear you can buy with the money it would take to construct a US-legal low-cab-forward 4WD crew cab.
I looked into this pretty extensively and concluded that the FE or, even better because it had a shorter wheelbase available, the Isuzu NPR crew cabs could make a real nice expedition truck. Just have to give up 4WD (no small thing, of course
).
The maintenance hassle from the non-tilt crew cab is real, but in exchange, if you were putting a cabin on the back, the passthrough will be vastly superior and more straightforward.
There's also the option of General Motors' orphaned C/K 4500/5500 conventionals which can be had from the factory wth crew cabs and 4WD. They may be all gone now, but I saw discounts as large as $20K on these trucks six months ago, which made it tempting to put up with the longer rig that would result compared to an LCF (though it'd still be considerably shorter than the Ford or Dodge equivalents).
I looked into this pretty extensively and concluded that the FE or, even better because it had a shorter wheelbase available, the Isuzu NPR crew cabs could make a real nice expedition truck. Just have to give up 4WD (no small thing, of course
).The maintenance hassle from the non-tilt crew cab is real, but in exchange, if you were putting a cabin on the back, the passthrough will be vastly superior and more straightforward.
There's also the option of General Motors' orphaned C/K 4500/5500 conventionals which can be had from the factory wth crew cabs and 4WD. They may be all gone now, but I saw discounts as large as $20K on these trucks six months ago, which made it tempting to put up with the longer rig that would result compared to an LCF (though it'd still be considerably shorter than the Ford or Dodge equivalents).
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The FE uses a straight frame, while the FG frame steps up at the
transmission. So the FG crew cab may attach to the frame in a different
way than the FE crew cab.
You can find drawings of the Canter FG and FE frames here
http://www.fuso.com.au/SpecSheets.aspx
One point that John Marano (aka whatcharterboat) raises is that when
you load a crew cab Canter with a camper big enough for a family
of four, the vehicle's cargo capacity is quickly used up. You probably
would need to change the suspension to handle the load. It would
be better to buy a machine like an Isuzu FTS or MAN crew cab, which
are stout enough to carry the larger load without modification.
Unfortunately, neither of these vehicles is imported to USA, either.
The vehicles closest to your requirements sold in USA are the GMC C5500
or the Ford F550. GM has closed its medium truck assembly plant, but
there are some C5500s on dealer lots. Ford continues to build F550s.
transmission. So the FG crew cab may attach to the frame in a different
way than the FE crew cab.
You can find drawings of the Canter FG and FE frames here
http://www.fuso.com.au/SpecSheets.aspx
One point that John Marano (aka whatcharterboat) raises is that when
you load a crew cab Canter with a camper big enough for a family
of four, the vehicle's cargo capacity is quickly used up. You probably
would need to change the suspension to handle the load. It would
be better to buy a machine like an Isuzu FTS or MAN crew cab, which
are stout enough to carry the larger load without modification.
Unfortunately, neither of these vehicles is imported to USA, either.
The vehicles closest to your requirements sold in USA are the GMC C5500
or the Ford F550. GM has closed its medium truck assembly plant, but
there are some C5500s on dealer lots. Ford continues to build F550s.
Dmarchand
Adventurer
Thanks everyone for the input. 4wd is a requirement and the crew cab is "almost" a requirement based on the customer we are building the box for. Haven, that is very helpful information. We are going to take a look at the trucks side by side and attempt a visual comparison of the cab mounting locations.
A C&C FE Crew Cab has a curb weight of just over 6,000 pounds and there cant be more than a ton on the rear axle, if that much.
Stock rear axle is rated at 10,000 pounds and the GVWR is 14,500 pounds. This leaves about 8000 pounds in carrying capacity, overall and on the rear axle.
What kind of camper are you going to put onto that size truck that weighs 8,000 pounds?
If you need a large camper on the back, you should definitely use a larger truck, but with proper build and planning, you should be within the limits of the FE crew cab. One option on the rear axle is to swap it for a Dana 80 from one ton Dodge truck. There are several locker choices available including ARB and many more gearing choices. With dual rear tires in an off highway tread and a solid locker, your 2wd design may be more plausible.
Stock rear axle is rated at 10,000 pounds and the GVWR is 14,500 pounds. This leaves about 8000 pounds in carrying capacity, overall and on the rear axle.
What kind of camper are you going to put onto that size truck that weighs 8,000 pounds?
If you need a large camper on the back, you should definitely use a larger truck, but with proper build and planning, you should be within the limits of the FE crew cab. One option on the rear axle is to swap it for a Dana 80 from one ton Dodge truck. There are several locker choices available including ARB and many more gearing choices. With dual rear tires in an off highway tread and a solid locker, your 2wd design may be more plausible.
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jdlcruiser
New member
which switch?
The question is always the same... move the cab or add the correct tran/xfer combo. Personally, it sounds easier to add a solid axle and source a tran setup even if you use a divorced. These vehicles have always intrigued me and saw some Canters while in Canada. Unless I am not thinking about it correctly, axles bolt on easier than finding all of the fab stuff for jamming a wrong cab onto a frame. I had an NPR for a long time and always though that a divorced case may offer more options. Maybe even a divorced doubler xfer. I think one of the early fords came with a divorced 203 chain drive.
JLa
The question is always the same... move the cab or add the correct tran/xfer combo. Personally, it sounds easier to add a solid axle and source a tran setup even if you use a divorced. These vehicles have always intrigued me and saw some Canters while in Canada. Unless I am not thinking about it correctly, axles bolt on easier than finding all of the fab stuff for jamming a wrong cab onto a frame. I had an NPR for a long time and always though that a divorced case may offer more options. Maybe even a divorced doubler xfer. I think one of the early fords came with a divorced 203 chain drive.
JLa
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Once you do that, I think you'll realize how easy it is. (that is provided you have all the lifting gear, etc) Maybe "easy" wouldn't be as correct as "straight forward". It's still going to take time.
Nope. That's correct.
Don't forget , you can just cut down a MWB chassis and fit a SWB tailshaft. After all that's all a SWB chassis is. Well actually it's a cut down MWB FE with a step section riveted in the middle. Let me check out the SWB tailshaft and the rear section of a 2 piece MWB unit and get back on that tomorrow. (Edited: Had another look. 99% sure now the SWB tailshaft is the same as the rear section of the MWB shaft).
BTW I looked at buying all the 2nd hand conversion parts to convert an FE single cab to a FG single cab for myself recently. It wasn't that scary. The FE was an '05 which came out with the same cab as the FG84 but the same motor as the FG649. The 2nd hand 649 parts were less than $5k IIRC. Front diff, transfercase, shift cables, lever, chassis step, etc.
Not sure about that. They may be still similar. Good point ,Leon.
Hi Chip, Yeah , I'm not a fan of crew cabs with camper boxes on the back. If you have a family (and I've got 4 billy lids so I sympathize) the size of camper you need on the back is going to be big. Too big for a crew cab. You'd need to stretch it if anything. If you want to go bush you want the thing as short as possible. Why fit a big camper, (able to sleep everyone) to a big cab and then not use that cab space when you're camped up. If you can have a big camper with safe seating (and a big pass through) that you can use when camped and traveling >>>>a crew cab is a waste of space (hey, IMO only) and they are horrible for kids to sit in anyway. They were made for work crews, not families with kids. Ever seen how high the back windows are in them not to mention the FG84's here with the EGR systems radiating all the heat up behind the engine bay to the middle rear seat floor area. And those comfy seats. Not.
Actually quoted on a good one today, similar to what Leon was talking about there. Converting a 637 Crewcab to SWB, SRW, suspension and a short alloy worktray for carting dirtbikes.
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John,
Thanks for the insight on those points. Nice to have info from someone who does this everyday.
I think jdlcruiser is on the right track though with swapping things like rear axles or adding a divorced transfer case being easier than swapping cabs over. Maybe I am wrong on that, never swapped a cab, but rear solid axles and leaf springs and cross members are pretty simple tasks for me.
If you want to stack transfer cases, you can stack the gear driven section of a 203 (strongest part) with a 205 with parts from ORD and others. Air shift and cable shift kits as well as lower gears (3:1 from LoMax) are also options. You could have 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 and 6:1. An Atlas four speed can be divorced and has upto a 10:1 compound low, though thats pretty low for an expo rig.
Plenty of electric shift transfer cases are available too like NV241/3 and NV271/3, keeping another set of levers out of the cab, where only a simple switch on the dash is needed to engage 4wd and can even be done on the fly at low speeds. I recently saw a 241 doubler kit, but I dont remember where.
Using domestic (Dana, Sterling, AAM, etc) one ton running gear to create a 4wd crew cab gives you options for locking hubs, ring and pinion, lockers, easy to obtain parts, etc., where you dont have many options with Mitsu axles in the US.
The off road/rock crawling/lifted diesel domestic truck market is HUGE compared to Expo, so why not take advantage of that to get what you want out of your vehicle.
I have researched this project pretty well and am gathering parts for converting a 2004 FE-SP Crew Cab to 4wd instead of swapping that cab to an FG chassis.
Will start a build thread when I finally get it going, which hopefully will be soon.
Thanks for the insight on those points. Nice to have info from someone who does this everyday.
I think jdlcruiser is on the right track though with swapping things like rear axles or adding a divorced transfer case being easier than swapping cabs over. Maybe I am wrong on that, never swapped a cab, but rear solid axles and leaf springs and cross members are pretty simple tasks for me.
If you want to stack transfer cases, you can stack the gear driven section of a 203 (strongest part) with a 205 with parts from ORD and others. Air shift and cable shift kits as well as lower gears (3:1 from LoMax) are also options. You could have 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 and 6:1. An Atlas four speed can be divorced and has upto a 10:1 compound low, though thats pretty low for an expo rig.
Plenty of electric shift transfer cases are available too like NV241/3 and NV271/3, keeping another set of levers out of the cab, where only a simple switch on the dash is needed to engage 4wd and can even be done on the fly at low speeds. I recently saw a 241 doubler kit, but I dont remember where.
Using domestic (Dana, Sterling, AAM, etc) one ton running gear to create a 4wd crew cab gives you options for locking hubs, ring and pinion, lockers, easy to obtain parts, etc., where you dont have many options with Mitsu axles in the US.
The off road/rock crawling/lifted diesel domestic truck market is HUGE compared to Expo, so why not take advantage of that to get what you want out of your vehicle.
I have researched this project pretty well and am gathering parts for converting a 2004 FE-SP Crew Cab to 4wd instead of swapping that cab to an FG chassis.
Will start a build thread when I finally get it going, which hopefully will be soon.
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jdlcruiser
New member
universality..
Finding stuff in the states is always on my mind. The doubler option is always a cool factor especially for a rig that may or may not hit top hi-way speeds. Maybe a temp gauge on the ancient 203 would be wise. One of the nifty things about divorced is the option for one length driveshafts. Especially with the longer wheel base rigs. Having to carry one spare and a few u-joints as opposed to two spares, u-joints, cv's, etc. Much less weight and space.
Anywhoo, cant wait to see the build thread. Love the idea.
JLa
Finding stuff in the states is always on my mind. The doubler option is always a cool factor especially for a rig that may or may not hit top hi-way speeds. Maybe a temp gauge on the ancient 203 would be wise. One of the nifty things about divorced is the option for one length driveshafts. Especially with the longer wheel base rigs. Having to carry one spare and a few u-joints as opposed to two spares, u-joints, cv's, etc. Much less weight and space.
Anywhoo, cant wait to see the build thread. Love the idea.
JLa
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Sounds like a good plan.
BTW Are FG parts (diffs, transfer cases, chassis sections, etc) commonly available from wreckers in the US???
I had another look at the crewcab we've got here at work. To me it looks like the cabs would swap straight over with no fabrication work. Still I don't know of anyone who's actually done it.
John,
Depends on what part of the country you are in I guess, but as you know we dont get the cool stuff that you guys get. Fuso trucks here are not very common, at least not in the SE US. I found a few breakers that will sell engines, transmissions and body parts, but I have never seen a Fuso in a wrecking yard or pick and pull yard where you just go get parts off it. The breakers pick it apart, shelve the inventory and you then buy used parts from their counter.
Doing a 4wd conversion on a crew cab gives some options that a cab swap does not. Otherwise, I would be removing factory FG parts which then begs the question, why start with an FG) Nice to know that it should not be difficult to do a cab swap and keep all the FG stuff, thereby making a crew cab FG which we dont get here.
Depends on what part of the country you are in I guess, but as you know we dont get the cool stuff that you guys get. Fuso trucks here are not very common, at least not in the SE US. I found a few breakers that will sell engines, transmissions and body parts, but I have never seen a Fuso in a wrecking yard or pick and pull yard where you just go get parts off it. The breakers pick it apart, shelve the inventory and you then buy used parts from their counter.
Doing a 4wd conversion on a crew cab gives some options that a cab swap does not. Otherwise, I would be removing factory FG parts which then begs the question, why start with an FG
) Nice to know that it should not be difficult to do a cab swap and keep all the FG stuff, thereby making a crew cab FG which we dont get here.
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whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Yeah Leon. Fuso are like that. Also the tailshaft would be the same part from the beginning to the current model.
Too bad this one is not 4wd.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...844512&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...844512&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:B:SS:US:1123