Dare to be Different - I need your HONEST help!

[RealJon]

Japes - I'm still not clear as to the design brief - what are you going to do with it?

All I've got so far, is that you need a good MPG, 80 mile/day DD, that has to be able to do 80+ on the highway, and needs have some offroad capabilities.

What's the plan, man? How much DD vs how much offroad?
What kind of offroad?
How long will you be gone?
How much stuff do you need to carry, etc.?

You might be able to get away with a Honda Element, but I''m hesitant to recommend it, because it's not the king of the offroad jungle LOL

I might also suggest that you might lean more towards your DD now, and splash out a bit more when you finish your school stuff.:coffeedrink:

Good luck, either way!

Cheers,
Mark

I tried to lean to a 90% DD / 10 % offroader. Thats why I optioned the Civic / Summit. My general reasoning behind wanting some offroad capabilities are; I plan to start fishing/ camping/ exploring now I have a partner who will enjoy it. You never know when you are going to need them, floods, snow, apocalypse.

We looked into the Element and I would have to take a loan out and make payments and thats not what I want at the moment in my life.

What kind of offroad?
Nothing serious, just enough to get to fishing holes. Maybe some snow.

How long will we be gone?
Our excursions will be limited to a night or two at a time, I am trying to ease her into camping and dont want to take her into the woods for a week of hard living.


How much stuff?
Dependent on where we are going. I think the majority of our trips will be 2-3 days so not a ton of gear required.

 

[Mrknowitall]

My numbers were for the 16V. For a 1997, http://www.fueleconomy.gov lists the 2 and 4 door models as the same fuel economy (both 4WD, both manual trans): 21 city, 24 highway.

- Andy

We had 94 Sidekick JLX (16V, 4x4, MT) in the faminly for 15 years. If you keep up on the maintenance, they're pretty good little rigs. You can miser 27-30mpg out of it, but if you insist on running over 80, forget it. 5.13 gears give it enough snap, put will have you screaming along at close to 5 grand. Room and cargo, (even power) is good for 2 people, with 4 people and ski gear, it gets laborious. Ours once hauled 2 grown men and 30+ cases of wine from southern Germany to Scotland. Off-road, it has low range and can be fitted with lock-rights (cheap). Any lift will cost you fuel economy. If you can find one that isn't too rusty, it could make for a nice DD now, and a fun dedicated wheeler in a few years. Good luck

 

[bajajoaquin]

Here's one picture my brother sent me to put up on Photobucket. For those who may be familiar, that's the North road into Scorpion Bay. He's told me that he got out of that, and lots of other things, by airing down to 5-8 psi.



But before you buy anything, I urge you to really look hard at the numbers. I saw that you posted above that you're concerned about the sale price of your Trooper, is that correct? What you're looking at isn't just fuel mileage. It's marginal fuel cost.

If you spend any extra money on the new car, that's money that could go to gas in the old one. You're going to have a tough time finding a car with expedition capabilities that gets real-world fuel economy above the high 20s. For example. If you move from 20 mpg to 27 mpg, you're going to be saving about $0.07 per mile. That's $50 at 1,000 miles per month. Real money, sure. But if you spend any additional money on that car, it can take you a while to add up to any net savings.

Specifically, going from 20 mpg to 30 mpg, if it costs you a net of $2000 to change cars, that's 30,000 miles before you pay back your costs, much less come out ahead financially.

If you're interested, here's a quick calculator I built in Excel. It's from a different thread a while back, where someone wanted to purchase a diesel truck rather than a gas one, but you can see the mpg calculator at the bottom.

 

[Martinjmpr]

To sum up, you want:

1. Low intial price
2. Good fuel economy
3. Off-road capability
4. Reliable and safe

Honestly, I don't think your dream vehicle exists. Back in the 1980's you could find a lot of 4 cyl 4x4 pickups and SUVs that would get you close to 20 or even more (I could get a reliable 25mpg in my 85 Toyota 4x4, regular cab, 5 speed with the 22r carb'd engine.) Since gas got so cheap in the 90's, the size of vehicles and engines increased.

If you're talking about an 83-89 Toyota Tercel or 4wd Honda or similar, you need to consider that you are talking about a 25+ year old vehicle that will probably have somewhere north of 150,000 - 200,000 miles on it (or more.) No matter how well made it was when it was new, it will need maintenance and certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a long trip.

To tell you the truth, I think you're going to have to compromise on your requirements. Given that your income is fixed, you need a DD, and gas is only going to be getting more expensive, I would seriously recommend that you give up on the idea of 4wd and low range and just get a regular cab 2wd mini truck. Put a decent set of tires on it and throw a shell on the back and there you go. 4 cyl + 5 speed tranny will give you 25+ MPG (I had an 84 Mazda B2000 that could get 32 in the city and an honest 37+ on the highway.)

Yeah, 4wd is nice, but if it comes down to having a 4wd that you can't afford to drive anywhere (either because you are spending all your money on gas or on repairs), a simple, easy 2wd can be a pretty decent vehicle.

When I was in college and law school, I needed a new vehicle and reluctantly gave up 4wd for a few years. It was the right call and I have to say, that 2wd Ranger was one of the best "road trip" vehicles I've ever owned. Even with a V6 I got 23 - 26 MPG and it was supremely comfortable on the highway. Sure, I didn't get as far into the back country as I would have liked, but I still managed to do a lot of travel and exploration.

EDITED TO ADD: I've said before to other people asking similar questions to ask themselves: Is your vehicle supporting your lifestyle, or is your lifestyle supporting your vehicle?

To put it a different way, focus on your needs and then look at what you require as a bare minimum to meet those needs. You live in GA - do you get snow/ice much? If not, do you really need 4wd? You can get to a lot of fishing holes in a 2wd truck, people have been doing it for more than a century. With good tires and a lick of common sense, you can go pretty far with 2wd.

 

[Martinjmpr]

But before you buy anything, I urge you to really look hard at the numbers. I saw that you posted above that you're concerned about the sale price of your Trooper, is that correct? What you're looking at isn't just fuel mileage. It's marginal fuel cost.

If you spend any extra money on the new car, that's money that could go to gas in the old one. You're going to have a tough time finding a car with expedition capabilities that gets real-world fuel economy above the high 20s.

This, too.

It's natural to want "something new" but as an old buddy of mine once said "the cheapest car out there is the one you already own."

I've never understood the idea of taking out a loan on a $22k Prius just because it gets 50 mpg. Especially if you trade in a paid-for gas guzzler! For the $500/month in car payments, you can put a lot of gas in that old truck!

 

[RealJon]

To sum up, you want:

1. Low intial price
2. Good fuel economy
3. Off-road capability
4. Reliable and safe

Honestly, I don't think your dream vehicle exists. Back in the 1980's you could find a lot of 4 cyl 4x4 pickups and SUVs that would get you close to 20 or even more (I could get a reliable 25mpg in my 85 Toyota 4x4, regular cab, 5 speed with the 22r carb'd engine.) Since gas got so cheap in the 90's, the size of vehicles and engines increased.

If you're talking about an 83-89 Toyota Tercel or 4wd Honda or similar, you need to consider that you are talking about a 25+ year old vehicle that will probably have somewhere north of 150,000 - 200,000 miles on it (or more.) No matter how well made it was when it was new, it will need maintenance and certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a long trip.

To tell you the truth, I think you're going to have to compromise on your requirements. Given that your income is fixed, you need a DD, and gas is only going to be getting more expensive, I would seriously recommend that you give up on the idea of 4wd and low range and just get a regular cab 2wd mini truck. Put a decent set of tires on it and throw a shell on the back and there you go. 4 cyl + 5 speed tranny will give you 25+ MPG (I had an 84 Mazda B2000 that could get 32 in the city and an honest 37+ on the highway.)

Yeah, 4wd is nice, but if it comes down to having a 4wd that you can't afford to drive anywhere (either because you are spending all your money on gas or on repairs), a simple, easy 2wd can be a pretty decent vehicle.

When I was in college and law school, I needed a new vehicle and reluctantly gave up 4wd for a few years. It was the right call and I have to say, that 2wd Ranger was one of the best "road trip" vehicles I've ever owned. Even with a V6 I got 23 - 26 MPG and it was supremely comfortable on the highway. Sure, I didn't get as far into the back country as I would have liked, but I still managed to do a lot of travel and exploration.

EDITED TO ADD: I've said before to other people asking similar questions to ask themselves: Is your vehicle supporting your lifestyle, or is your lifestyle supporting your vehicle?

To put it a different way, focus on your needs and then look at what you require as a bare minimum to meet those needs. You live in GA - do you get snow/ice much? If not, do you really need 4wd? You can get to a lot of fishing holes in a 2wd truck, people have been doing it for more than a century. With good tires and a lick of common sense, you can go pretty far with 2wd.

I understand and I guess its time I realize I am making my life in Georgia, not Texas or Pennsylvania. I bought the Trooper in PA for snow because my previous car was a Prerunner Taco. I never planned on moving to Georgia, I told myself if it didnt work in PA I was going back home to Texas, but I came to GA and I have never been happier.

I have the credit to go buy something new but I dont want something new, I want something that is going to cost me no extra money to hop in and actually save me money on tires / gas/ repairs. My father drives a 86 Toyota Ext Cab and has 350k miles and still gets 25 mpg all day.

What year was you ranger and what engine was it equipped with?

I honestly appreciate your help everyone.

 

[Martinjmpr]

IWhat year was you ranger and what engine was it equipped with?

I honestly appreciate your help everyone.

Mine was a 99 that I bought new (last new vehicle I ever bought and probably the last new one I ever will buy) and it had the 3.0 Flex-fuel V6 and a 5 speed.

If I'd had to do it over again I would have gotten a slightly used rather than new. And the 6 cyl was really only neccessary because I got the extra cab. If I'd had to do it over again I might have gone for a 4 cyl/reg cab.

I put 93,000 miles on that truck in less than 4 years with ZERO problems (except for a check engine light that was fixed under warranty.)

 

[RealJon]

I know what a 22RE Equipped 5 Speed Toyota will net 25 Average.
I assume a Mazda / Nissan / Isuzu would most likely net me the same.
My question is about the Dodge D50/ Dakota, Ford Ranger, Chevy S10 with a 4cyl,5 Speed, what mileage should I expect from one of them?
Fuelly doesnt seem to give an accurate representation for older vehicles pre-93.

 

[98dango]

I know what a 22RE Equipped 5 Speed Toyota will net 25 Average. ya right mine never have

I assume a Mazda / Nissan / Isuzu would most likely net me the same. could

My question is about the Dodge D50/ Dakota, Ford Ranger, Chevy S10 with a 4cyl,5 Speed, what mileage should I expect from one of them? my v6 s10 2wd with 32s got 18-20

Fuelly doesnt seem to give an accurate representation for older vehicles pre-93.

the best mileage your going to get usable off road will be from the suzuki family in my opinion. I have owned toyota p/u 4runners s10s rangers explorers. Never saw the mileage my dad did beating the wee out of samuri after samuri and then trackers and sidekicks. He could pull 20+ in low range running hard core trails fill it friday run hard all weekend and fill tuesday.

 

[RealJon]

the best mileage your going to get usable off road will be from the suzuki family in my opinion. I have owned toyota p/u 4runners s10s rangers explorers. Never saw the mileage my dad did beating the wee out of samuri after samuri and then trackers and sidekicks. He could pull 20+ in low range running hard core trails fill it friday run hard all weekend and fill tuesday.

I know for a fact a 2wd 22re/5 speed will net 25 average. We have had one in the family since new, my father drives it every day and gets 25 no problem.

 

[swift7777]

Ever consider the Jeep Patriot, it meets all of your requirements, cheap to buy, great on gas 22 - 29 mpg, comfortable ride & quite a capable soft roader with lockable 4 wheel drive. I have one as my daily driver & its also a great vehicle to explore in as it come with a fold flat front seat so you can easily sleep in it.

 

[RealJon]

Ever consider the Jeep Patriot, it meets all of your requirements, cheap to buy, great on gas 22 - 29 mpg, comfortable ride & quite a capable soft roader with lockable 4 wheel drive. I have one as my daily driver & its also a great vehicle to explore in as it come with a fold flat front seat so you can easily sleep in it.

If I was going to get into having a Payment I would just get a SX4. But like I said I am not going to get into anything I cant sell / trade my trooper for.

 

[Martinjmpr]

My question is about the Dodge D50/ Dakota, Ford Ranger, Chevy S10 with a 4cyl,5 Speed, what mileage should I expect from one of them? Fuelly doesnt seem to give an accurate representation for older vehicles pre-93.

Any small truck from the 80's with a 4 cyl/5 speed combo should be good for 25 easy. If it's not getting that, there's something wrong with the engine.

As I said above, I had an 84 Mazda B2000 with a 2.0l I-4 (carbureted), 5 speed, manual steering and no AC. I'm pretty sure I never got less than 30mpg on it. Sure, it was slow (I called it the "Silver Slug" becuase it could never be mistaken for a bullet!) but it was reliable and good enough for what I needed at the time. The tank held 11 gallons and more than once I was able to get 400+ miles off that 11 gallons of gas.

I'd say a slightly newer Mazda (the body style was considerably updated for 1986 and that body style continued through 1993) would be a good choice and you can often find them for dirt cheap. Throw a Craigslist shell on top and you've got a low-budget exploration vehicle.

Now, if you really, really need (want) 4wd, you might be able to find a 1987 - 93 Mazda B2600 4x4. The B2600 had a fuel injected 2.6l 4 cyl engine and was often found with a 5 speed tranny. Not as good MPG as the 2wd, but it should be significantly better than your Trooper. It will be tough finding one that doesn't have high miles, but it's an option.

Beginning in 1994, Mazdas were rebadged Rangers. Still not bad, with a 4 cyl/5 speed you can figure at least 25mpg.

If I lived in the South again (I was stationed in NC from 1992 - 96) I would make sure any vehicle I got had AC. For that reason alone I'd probably try for a 1995 - newer vehicle. AC just wasn't that common in 4 cyl pickups in the 80's.

Depending on your budget, you can probably find a Ranger/Mazda, Toyota or Nissan 2wd reg cab with a 4 cyl/5 speed for under $4k. A shell will be $200 - $300 if you keep your eye on CL and from there it's just up to your imagination and budget.

 

[98dango]

Yes a 2wd one will but not a 4wd. I had much fun and saw alot in my 2wd s10 many days I wish it was still 2wd.

 

[bajajoaquin]

Not to beat a dead horse, but unless you are going to spend no more on the new vehicle than you get for the Trooper, you need to think long and hard about what you value. If you only get $2k for the Trooper, what else can you get for that money? Any significant increase in expense will wipe away any gas savings that you may achieve.

You also say that you drive 80 on the highway. If you drive 80 miles round-trip a day (a figure I picked up from another post), that means you spend an hour in the car (okay, it's more, since you don't spend the whole time there). If you went down to 65, you could probably move your mpg up to 20, at the expense of 14 more minutes in the car (actually less, since you don't spend your whole time at 80). That would save you $110/month.

On the other hand, if you can buy a really fuel-efficient car for a $500 more than you sell your Trooper for, and you can realize a true 30 mpg, you will get payback of your investment in two months (assuming 1700 miles per month), and save $225/month thereafter (plus possible savings in insurance and tires, maintenance, etc.).

So my advice is: if you really want to save money, either drive your current car slower, or don't buy an expo rig.