Wallygator
Adventurer
Look into a turbo timer and EGT gauge if you don't have that capability on your truck. You can take the key out and lock the truck and the turbo timer will shut off the motor when your turbo/EGT is at a safe temp to do so.
Diesel for overlanding- are you happy with the choice?
- Thread starter GreggNY
- Start date
Look into a turbo timer and EGT gauge if you don't have that capability on your truck. You can take the key out and lock the truck and the turbo timer will shut off the motor when your turbo/EGT is at a safe temp to do so.
Railvan
Adventurer
"Diesel for overlanding- are you happy with the choice?"
As the owner of a 2006 FORD 6.0 diesel, I'd say no, I'm not happy with my choice. Way too much money has been spent to keep it running. A V10 would have been a better choice, but owning a camper van doesn't allow me to sell the truck and keep the camper.
As the owner of a 2006 FORD 6.0 diesel, I'd say no, I'm not happy with my choice. Way too much money has been spent to keep it running. A V10 would have been a better choice, but owning a camper van doesn't allow me to sell the truck and keep the camper.
Badmiker
Member
Automotive diesel emissions engineer here...
A couple of points here regarding diesel tech.
1. Diesels are great for many reasons but are getting really expensive.
- Common rail systems are operating at 2200+bar so the pumps are very pricey and can be delicate
- Injectors are being driven to have 7-9 possible injections per cycle, again pricey and potentially delicate
- VNT's ... yeah not cheap
- Forget EGR, now we have LPEGR and HPEGR on the same engine
- LNT/DPF/pSCR - DOC/SDPF/pSCR - DOC/DPF/SCR - these bricks get bulky and expensive the Pt/Pd in an LNT is never going to be affordable
- Sensors - T1, T21, T22, T3, T4, T5, T6 on many modern engines, add 2 HEGNs, a DPS or GPS, EGR US/DS sensors, EGPMS each one of these can fail and cause issues and can be very expensive
- on and on.
2. Emissions testing is getting tougher.
- PEMS is mandated up to 2400m now. (9000') extended conditions from -7degC to +35degC
- Most OEMs want full compliance that is transparent to the customer leading to some very strange calibrations
3. Public backlash is a real thing
- After VW and the first Diesel gate, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, and others have all been caught exploiting the system this has made diesel pass-car a toxic market
- Currently diesel calibration/development is significantly slowing in demand.
That being said,
In the HD arena, OTR transport/ construction/ shipping/ etc, the calorific density of diesel fuel is really hard to beat. I expect this area of the market to continue for probably the next 10-15 years. The LD/MD market is on the way out. Our team, to an engineer, is looking to find another career path.
When we build either our TT or our BB, we'll be looking at diesel due to the chassis class for the vehicle but both builds will be heavier than a F250. Think 3.5t and up.
I've driven most of the pass-car and LD diesels in my career and still prefer to own a petrol engine. I personally find the large torque curve and short power-band to be slightly nauseating in driving.
Of course, go ahead and buy and drive what you like. However, if you are a coal roller you are a ************-bag. I think we can all agree on that.
A couple of points here regarding diesel tech.
1. Diesels are great for many reasons but are getting really expensive.
- Common rail systems are operating at 2200+bar so the pumps are very pricey and can be delicate
- Injectors are being driven to have 7-9 possible injections per cycle, again pricey and potentially delicate
- VNT's ... yeah not cheap
- Forget EGR, now we have LPEGR and HPEGR on the same engine
- LNT/DPF/pSCR - DOC/SDPF/pSCR - DOC/DPF/SCR - these bricks get bulky and expensive the Pt/Pd in an LNT is never going to be affordable
- Sensors - T1, T21, T22, T3, T4, T5, T6 on many modern engines, add 2 HEGNs, a DPS or GPS, EGR US/DS sensors, EGPMS each one of these can fail and cause issues and can be very expensive
- on and on.
2. Emissions testing is getting tougher.
- PEMS is mandated up to 2400m now. (9000') extended conditions from -7degC to +35degC
- Most OEMs want full compliance that is transparent to the customer leading to some very strange calibrations
3. Public backlash is a real thing
- After VW and the first Diesel gate, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, and others have all been caught exploiting the system this has made diesel pass-car a toxic market
- Currently diesel calibration/development is significantly slowing in demand.
That being said,
In the HD arena, OTR transport/ construction/ shipping/ etc, the calorific density of diesel fuel is really hard to beat. I expect this area of the market to continue for probably the next 10-15 years. The LD/MD market is on the way out. Our team, to an engineer, is looking to find another career path.
When we build either our TT or our BB, we'll be looking at diesel due to the chassis class for the vehicle but both builds will be heavier than a F250. Think 3.5t and up.
I've driven most of the pass-car and LD diesels in my career and still prefer to own a petrol engine. I personally find the large torque curve and short power-band to be slightly nauseating in driving.
Of course, go ahead and buy and drive what you like. However, if you are a coal roller you are a ************-bag. I think we can all agree on that.
NevadaLover
Forking Icehole
Best post this month, good advice AND truth all in one!
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I built a couple of new Rams the other day on their website and remember that either the 3500 C&C or the regular 3500 was available with a turbo timer as a factory option.
nickw
Adventurer
How does it work? Uou turn off the truck, pull out the key go to where you are going and the engine runs until the Turbos are cool enough?
shade
Well-known member
Has a turbo timer been an option for decades, or is it a recent OEM option? I remember those being popular decades ago, but this is the first I've heard about them in years. Maybe conditions have changed with all of the emissions requirements, and using a timer makes more sense today.
I'm a little surprised they don't have the management system set up with one as a standard feature. Let the engine decide if it needs to run on, and be done with it.
nickw
Adventurer
Well that wouldn't work if need to park in a garage and close the door...
shade
Well-known member
True.
That's why there'd be an overide.
I first learned about them when my brother built up a single turbo Supra. This is the first time I've ever seen that as a box I could check when building a truck.
The comment about enclosed garages is exactly why it can't be automatic. The default has to be to turn off with the button/key.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
They go back to the 80's with those POS Shelby Charger things.
All you have to do is drive gently for a couple miles before shutting down, because modern turbos don't suck so bad anymore.
Pulling off the hwy to a rest stop, or flat tire, while towing, is about the only scenario that I can think of that requires a cool down where you'd need to sit in the drivers seat for a bit.
Your Sat morning run to starbucks isn't going to require a cooldown, unless you're a Momo. If your concerned about it, install a pre-turbo EGT sensor.
All you have to do is drive gently for a couple miles before shutting down, because modern turbos don't suck so bad anymore.
Pulling off the hwy to a rest stop, or flat tire, while towing, is about the only scenario that I can think of that requires a cool down where you'd need to sit in the drivers seat for a bit.
Your Sat morning run to starbucks isn't going to require a cooldown, unless you're a Momo. If your concerned about it, install a pre-turbo EGT sensor.
Diesel's - you either like them or you don't. You either need one - or you don't.
While not a full size, we have a mini duramax, our first diesel. So far we are loving it. Tows our camper great with truck loaded up too. Right at the 5000 lb limit of truck. No issues. 13 mpg towing at max on a windy day, 27 mpg empty has been the best so far (2700 miles).
If gasoline engine trucks had decent transmissions, with more & better work gears & only 1 overdrive, many people wouldn't need a diesel, but because they don't exist in the 3/4 - 1 ton market, people need the massive torque of the diesels to make up for it. I had one of the last ones.... a Hemi powered G-56 Power Wagon. Great truck, towed great but got 6-8 mpg or less. That gets old quickly and it was nickle and diming us to death. Very happy so far with our mini duramax diesel.
While not a full size, we have a mini duramax, our first diesel. So far we are loving it. Tows our camper great with truck loaded up too. Right at the 5000 lb limit of truck. No issues. 13 mpg towing at max on a windy day, 27 mpg empty has been the best so far (2700 miles).
If gasoline engine trucks had decent transmissions, with more & better work gears & only 1 overdrive, many people wouldn't need a diesel, but because they don't exist in the 3/4 - 1 ton market, people need the massive torque of the diesels to make up for it. I had one of the last ones.... a Hemi powered G-56 Power Wagon. Great truck, towed great but got 6-8 mpg or less. That gets old quickly and it was nickle and diming us to death. Very happy so far with our mini duramax diesel.
nickw
Adventurer
A few of your points don't resonate with me, specifically the point about transmissions vs torque vs overdrive. With diesels and their narrow powerbands, they generally need and use more gears, this is one of the benefits of gas engines, broader range of power. Of course more gears can be better, the closer you can get to a CVT trans and keeping any engine in it's optimal power band is ideal, but relative to gas vs diesel, more gears typically benefit diesel. Regarding some of the deep overdrives, axle gearing can easily offset that if required....the F250/350 6.2 gas has the options of 4.30's, as example. The problem with not having those deep overdrives is when you need them for unloaded driving and associated MPG increase, you wont have them.
This is part of the reason why torque is a somewhat meaningless number....it's highly dependent on RPM and why "power" actually helps with these kinds of calcs.
All those old heavy duty pickups with BB V8's or I6's had those 3 speed trans w/granny seemed to get around ok....although glad gas was cheap! Certainly not the best driving experience with the NVH, but certainly got the job done.
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LD5050
New member
I’m currently torn between a ‘15 Titan Pro 4x gasser or a ‘01-03 7.3L PowerStroke for our next truck. It will be our main overlanding vehicle but will also serve other purposes as a secondary DD. Prices are comparable between the two ($20k), but depreciation has probably topped out on the 7.3 and is still in full gear on the Titan.
These are my two choices because I’m intimately familiar with both platforms and have very good purchase options with either route. We only tow occasionally, payload capacity is more important (as with most overlanders).
I’d kill myself before I’d “roll coal” but am leaning towards the 7.3 right now due to resell value and capability. I can always swap the front end for a ‘08+ version for aesthetics. Might even retrofit a DEF system. Screw EGR lol.
These are my two choices because I’m intimately familiar with both platforms and have very good purchase options with either route. We only tow occasionally, payload capacity is more important (as with most overlanders).
I’d kill myself before I’d “roll coal” but am leaning towards the 7.3 right now due to resell value and capability. I can always swap the front end for a ‘08+ version for aesthetics. Might even retrofit a DEF system. Screw EGR lol.