They don't show you what the mileage difference is with a load. I would bet the gas engine will drop to 6 mpg and the diesel will drop to 12 mpg. Then start figuring the payback. Also if you are pulling at altitude the turbo diesel won't notice it.
Diesel News: POST HERE
- Thread starter Scott Brady
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They don't show you what the mileage difference is with a load. I would bet the gas engine will drop to 6 mpg and the diesel will drop to 12 mpg. Then start figuring the payback. Also if you are pulling at altitude the turbo diesel won't notice it.
My 3500's gas mileage is 18+ without a load. I get 15 combined all day long with the camper in the back.
Car and Driver compares the 2014 BMW 328d diesel with the gasoline powered equivalent sedan. BMW charges a modest $1500 premium for the diesel engine, and the diesel returns an observed 39 mpg, compared to 27 mpg of the gas engine in the same chassis. C/D estimates it will take 42,000 miles of fuel savings to recoup the extra cost of the diesel, in part because the gas motor requires premium fuel. However, C/D calls the diesel "a clattering plow mule" that takes a lot of the fun out of driving a Bimmer.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-bmw-328d-diesel-sedan-tested-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-bmw-328d-diesel-sedan-tested-review
paranoid56
Adventurer
yea i noticed import cars are much more reasonable when opting for the diesel option. unlike the tards in detroit. the VW diesel option is also around 1500 bucks. how i am sure when nissan and toyota come out, they will go full retard like the US options with their diesel options lol
doug720
Expedition Leader
I think many buyers of new diesel vehicles will have a tough time ever recouping the initial costs of going diesel. Why, maintenance and repair costs.
Owners will be OK during the warranty period, especially if they have factory maintenance plans. But, when those plans expire, or the second owner...
New diesels are not like old diesels, especially the electronics and emissions components. Add the cost of parts, which are usually double or more compared to a similar gas engine part and labor always costs more on a diesel, so one significant failure will likely offset any lifetime mileage gain. EGR and after treatment issues are huge for every manufacturer, with engine related electronics problems next. Ask many Ford and GM diesel owners how they like the $4-6,000 injector issues, or how many have had their variable turbo fail right after warranty ends to a tune $2-3,000?
Look at a Mercedes Sprinter with a diesel. You are almost mandated to have a dealer service the vehicle for the life of the warranty, or risk voiding the coverage. Regular 5-6K mile maintenance on a Sprinter is running about $400. Yes, you could get service done by and independent shop, or the owner could do it, but miss something or use non approved parts, and they HAVE denied repairs under warranty! Check out Sprinter engine failures and Mercedes response to owners.
I love my diesels, but I think I have bought my last one, at least with the current technology.
Owners will be OK during the warranty period, especially if they have factory maintenance plans. But, when those plans expire, or the second owner...
New diesels are not like old diesels, especially the electronics and emissions components. Add the cost of parts, which are usually double or more compared to a similar gas engine part and labor always costs more on a diesel, so one significant failure will likely offset any lifetime mileage gain. EGR and after treatment issues are huge for every manufacturer, with engine related electronics problems next. Ask many Ford and GM diesel owners how they like the $4-6,000 injector issues, or how many have had their variable turbo fail right after warranty ends to a tune $2-3,000?
Look at a Mercedes Sprinter with a diesel. You are almost mandated to have a dealer service the vehicle for the life of the warranty, or risk voiding the coverage. Regular 5-6K mile maintenance on a Sprinter is running about $400. Yes, you could get service done by and independent shop, or the owner could do it, but miss something or use non approved parts, and they HAVE denied repairs under warranty! Check out Sprinter engine failures and Mercedes response to owners.
I love my diesels, but I think I have bought my last one, at least with the current technology.
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I don't think you're taking into consideration reliability that comes with new vehicles. Injectors aside, the cost of electronic/computer failures will be relatively the same between diesels and gasers. As far a routine maintenance on a Chevy/GMC diesel products, my experience has been it's about the same as my wife's Subaru. So far my only issue with the newer diesels is DEF and ultra low sulfer diesel. DEF's not that big a deal because you normally refill at oil changes. ULSD is for me is a thorn mainly because you can't get it in Baja Sur which limits you somewhat to Baja Norte. I love my truck. Reliability comes with new technology if it's done correctly.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
Unless you're towing all the time or have a huge truck, the gas engine trucks will be cheaper and more reliable. Our fleet has been going back to gas for years. Only duallys get the diesels.
Noticed many other fleets doing the same. Diesel is great for power, but rarely does it save us any money. Nothing wrong with preferring the diesels, but the save money excuse doesn't fly for my uses. Every once in a while I have to spend extra on gas money for longer trips, not really an issue.
Noticed many other fleets doing the same. Diesel is great for power, but rarely does it save us any money. Nothing wrong with preferring the diesels, but the save money excuse doesn't fly for my uses. Every once in a while I have to spend extra on gas money for longer trips, not really an issue.
plainjaneFJC
Deplorable
Nailed it on the head. For now on my 1 ton diesels will be getting sold around 95k miles to stay within warranty.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
Larry
Bigassgas Explorer
Yep, I agree 100%. I’ve been saying the same thing here for years. I work for a diesel engine manufacturer and deal with them every day. I would not OWN any modern diesel in any platform that has a gasoline engine an option. I chuckled every time I read threads where everybody is salivating or wishing for a diesel in a Jeep, Power Wagon, RAM 1500, Chevy Colorado, yada, yada, yada…. Those folks must not experience the ways of the modern diesel engine yet and must think diesel engine life is still like it was 15 years ago. If someone really needs a modern diesel they would be better off leasing it and letting it go before it starts costing a fortune. Just like a German luxury car…..lease it, flog it, and give it back before it becomes a money pit. RAM is already having pretty big issues with their little V6 Ecodiesel with oil dilution (fuel getting into the oil) and flooding charge air coolers with oil. No surprise there!
The main fleet account I am responsible for has over 60,000 pieces of ground equipment in the US. Their trucks are brown and you see them everyday. Since 2007 about 90% of the new delivery vans they are putting in service are GM gasoline powered while the old diesels (Cummins, Navistar, and Mercedes) are being scrapped. There is no value in running diesels anymore, even old ones have a hard time competing with modern gasoline engines with respect to durability, and for come duty cycles, even the fuel economy is ever greater with gasoline.
Diesel engine inception cost are sky high, maintenance cost are ridiculous, while durability and reliably are way down in the dumper. The modern gas engines are still proving the same life expectancy of (250,000 to 350,000 miles) as the older diesels but cost a fraction to replace them at the end of the engines life. Keep in mind, these brown trucks have a unique duty cycle where the engine is cycled on and off hundreds of times a day. A modern diesel also does not do well without having major emissions aftertreatment issues on that kind of duty cycle. When it comes to engine replacement time, an old T444E diesel cost them around 14K to replace, a modern 6.4L is closer to 20K to replace while a GM 6.0L cost about $5,500 to replace. The savings in fuel economy is quickly wiped out with one single repair on a diesel (injectors, HP pump, etc.) Pay attention to the brown truck dropping off goodies on your doorstep next time. A very good chance you won’t even hear or smell it coming or going. No more stinky, leaky, smoky-smoke rattle-rattle ******** bang bang. Just the sound of solid GM gasoline power.
IMHO, Either people really honestly need the power of a diesel for routine heavy towing, really want a diesel because they read in the Overland Journal they were the shizzle, or are just outright uninformed when it comes to purchasing a diesel truck. As mentioned above, the fuel economy is a moot point. All of the gas verse diesel analysis that float around periodicals and online magazines (Truck Trend, pickuptruck.com) fail to ever mention the horrible durability of today’s diesels where one single out of warranty repair will cancel out any fuel economy savings the diesel delivered.
One last comment, my wife smashed the trunk on our new Impala and while I was at the dealer dropping it off at the body shop I was talking to the owner. I’ve know this guy for years and we got to chewing the rug about recent sales and how the new Silverado is doing. He was mentioning how surprised he was on the amount of people trading in diesel trucks on the new Silverado 1500 with the direct injected gas engines. Many of those people said they enjoyed the diesel for a few years but where ready to go back to gas due to costs. He also mentioned they will only take a Duramax or Cummins in on trade if it has less than 150,000 miles and they will not take any 6.0 or 6.4L Ford PowerJokes in on trade regardless of miles and even at that, most of their diesel trade ins go straight to auction rather than shinned up and placed on the used lot. He says they have been burned too many times reselling a diesel truck they took in on trade where they boomerang right back with expensive engine or aftertreatment issues.
Any no, I don't hate diesels. Diesel engines put food on my table... I'm just not a raving fan of them. Enough of my rambling…:costumed-smiley-007
chet6.7
Explorer
[h=1]Cummins Details New Two-Stage Turbo for Nissan Titan Diesel[/h]
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/1410_cummins_details_new_two_stage_turbo_for_nissan_titan_diesel/
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/1410_cummins_details_new_two_stage_turbo_for_nissan_titan_diesel/
Nice catch. The two stage turbo system includes a small turbo that spools up fast at low rpm, and a larger turbo that pushes more air when the rpm goes up. Sequential turbos like this are uncommon in passenger vehicles. Here's another article that explains how it works.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/next-g...troit-we-detail-its-clever-new-diesel-engine/
http://blog.caranddriver.com/next-g...troit-we-detail-its-clever-new-diesel-engine/
