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doug720

Expedition Leader
Europe's existing standards are higher than the US standards, but a little different on what emission component is most important.

I think diesels, at least in Europe and the US, are going to decline in the near future. The costs of buying the engines is usually higher, sometimes up $10K higher, but the real problem is keeping these running after the warranty is over. These costs will sour most owners. Look at what has happened to the cost of HD diesel ownership with the Tier II & III engines and after treatment. Mileage is lower, maintenance and repairs are more expensive, and most importantly, dependability/reliability has gone down.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Reading into the current talk France wants to get old dirty diesels off the road. Not ban them just get the old dirty tech off the road.
 

Dr. Cornwallis

Adventurer
I love Diesel engines. I think the Diesel engine is a better engine in every regard as far durability, mileage, power/torque. In relationship to overlanding vehicles (vehicles that typically see a lot of hard miles) I think a diesel is superior in every way. That being said, it makes no sense to buy a diesel anymore. The EPA has effectively ruined the Diesel engine. The only way I would own a diesel anymore is if it were one made prior to Tier II and III, but those will only be around for so long before they just can't be rebuilt anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
I think diesels, at least in Europe and the US, are going to decline in the near future.

I take it you've never been to Europe?

There is absolutely no chance of that happening - a massive majority of vehicles in Europe are diesel because of the economy.

Right now in London gas is $6.29USD/US Gallon - you bet that extra 30% of mileage pays off with diesel.

-Dan
 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
Dan,
Europe's diesel standards are different than the US. I'm sure they think the US is playing catch up to their standard. ;-)

Yep, they are right now, though in 2017 with the new Tier 3 regulation they're going to be exceedingly similar, and in 2019 even closer.

-Dan
 

JHa6av8r

Adventurer
I take it you've never been to Europe?

There is absolutely no chance of that happening - a massive majority of vehicles in Europe are diesel because of the economy.

Right now in London gas is $6.29USD/US Gallon - you bet that extra 30% of mileage pays off with diesel.

-Dan

To quote Mark Twain, ‘The report of my death was an exaggeration'. I think the demise of the diesel is a long way off if ever. I know the purist keep saying the new emissions controls will kill it, but I don't see it.
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
To quote Mark Twain, ‘The report of my death was an exaggeration’. I think the demise of the diesel is a long way off if ever. I know the purist keep saying the new emissions controls will kill it, but I don't see it.

Agreed.

I've never thought that the new, now current, and admittedly complex (compared to decades past) emissions systems would kill the Diesel engine, industry will adapt if possible. The benefits of Diesel engines will have to be compromised much more before gas, or another fuel system, takes over diesel. The world's freight moves on diesel fuel, hence diesel is here to stay until a practical and economical replacement is developed.

Now for the automotive enthusiasts, those that dream of smaller, light-duty diesels in smaller light-trucks and utility vehicles, the situation and future is less clear, though I don't see the heavy-duty pickup diesel market drying up soon. Does it make sense (cents) for the average enthusiast to buy a diesel truck over gasoline-powered when both are offered? Likely not for many, depending on one's point of view, particularly if the decision is primarily based on the cash payback of the upfront cost of choosing the diesel option. Though there are other (performance and personal) metrics that still make Diesel a very clear choice for many. How hard do you use your rigs and how long do you keep them?

One thing we don't yet know is the ultimate life cycle of the more recent emissions systems for light-duty applications. Will these systems add to the maintenance cost and cause additional down-time? Surely at some point they will, but that doesn't mean the juice wasn't worth the squeeze for all the years and miles that came before.

As a guy who has been driving diesels for 28 years, and was skeptical about the newer systems, I'm currently very pleased and not as skeptical as I once was. Our family fleet includes a '13 VW TDI Sportwagen with no urea/DEF injection, and a '14 Ram/Cummins 2500 that uses/needs DEF. I was cautious about adding a DEF-using rig, partially as I still had an old-school 7.3L/T444E F-350. Though at least in this Ram 2500 example, the 6.7L Cummins appears much happier using DEF than extra diesel fuel to help the truck meet the current emissions standards-- fuel economy is up, fuel-dilution of the engine oil is down, and oil change intervals at much higher mileages are a benefit. With only 5k on the Ram, and 22k on the TDI, these are preliminary impressions, thought I don't see the sky falling just yet. ;)
 

Regcabguy

Oil eater.
That's an interesting stand for them to take, considering they sell diesels in literally every single other market on the planet.

-Dan

Yep! I considered an F-250 V8 after selling my old '98.5 Dodge. Empty the truck couldn't keep up with my Dodge with 2000# popup on it's back.
Motor Trend had a televised test run on a Frontier with small displacement. The reviewer was ecstatic.
The only drawback is the degree of emission devices on the the US diesels compared to the worldwide units. I don't know how that will pan out.
My buddy absolutely hated diesels until renting a Toyota Hilux in Nicaragua. Upon return he was gushing about that little workhorse. He couldn't believe the refinement of the newer diesel applications out there.
 
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SSF556

SE Expedition Society
Being in the diesel engine business I have seen great strides in the DEF systems, especially the pumps and injectors. I can also tell you that there are some strides being made on possibly eliminating DEF in the next 5 years as advancements are being made in the substrate side of things for DPFs and ATDs.

That being said I am glad I have a 2008 diesel engine in my WK...allows me a lot more possibility for modifications and if I ever go to Mexico an engine that I would not worry about running high sulfur fuel on....
 

haven

Expedition Leader
Pemex, the Mexican oil producer/refiner, is spending heavily to upgrade its ultra low sulfur diesel production. The target is to offer ULSD at 60% of its stations by the end of 2015, and 100% of stations by end of 2017.

ULSD is common today in the towns along major highways near the US-Mexico border, around Mexico City, and in Baja California. Get away from the main roads, or further south, and it's much less likely today to find ULSD.

http://www.argusmedia.com/News/Article?id=927981
 

JHa6av8r

Adventurer
Pemex, the Mexican oil producer/refiner, is spending heavily to upgrade its ultra low sulfur diesel production. The target is to offer ULSD at 60% of its stations by the end of 2015, and 100% of stations by end of 2017.

ULSD is common today in the towns along major highways near the US-Mexico border, around Mexico City, and in Baja California. Get away from the main roads, or further south, and it's much less likely today to find ULSD.

http://www.argusmedia.com/News/Article?id=927981

This is good news!
 

doug720

Expedition Leader
...and I'm sure the Pemex diesel will be every bit as good as their gas.

When people drive their $50K+ diesel pick ups to Mexico and get a load of crappy diesel or some with too high of sulfur content, and it kills the after treatment system or injectors, which wont be covered under warranty, we'll find out.
 

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