Diesel News: POST HERE

[ExpoMike]

I'll really interested in a JK Unlimited CRD and would be the most likely choice to replace our Cherokee. We had rented a 4 door and 2 door JK when we were in Hawaii twice last year and I loved the 4 door. Everything was just a little bigger then the Cherokee, which at times feels a little small, especially for anyone in the back seat. I just don't want the current 3.8 engine since we will be towing our Kamparoo trailer and it was just okay without towing anything.

Here's waiting to see. With all the advancements in deisel in the recent years, I am suprised the USA is so slow to see them come in. Oh well...

 

[4Rescue]

I'll really interested in a JK Unlimited CRD and would be the most likely choice to replace our Cherokee. We had rented a 4 door and 2 door JK when we were in Hawaii twice last year and I loved the 4 door. Everything was just a little bigger then the Cherokee, which at times feels a little small, especially for anyone in the back seat. I just don't want the current 3.8 engine since we will be towing our Kamparoo trailer and it was just okay without towing anything.

Here's waiting to see. With all the advancements in deisel in the recent years, I am suprised the USA is so slow to see them come in. Oh well...

Yeah my Dad keeps searching for a replacement for his 98XJ. The JK with the diesel would be great and I like it alot more than the new Grand.

 

[haven]

German SUV diesels go Blue

Mercedes, BMW, VW and Audi plan to use the AdBlue urea injection technology to produce a 50-states legal diesel SUV in the 2009 model year. Mercedes will have urea injection versions of the R-, ML- and GL-320 vehicles this Fall. BMW will follow soon after with a urea-injection setup in an X5. A diesel VW Tuareg and Audi Q7 are also on the way.

In each of these models, the urea and water mixture is carried in its own tank, and injected into the exhaust to reduce NOx emissions. The tank will have to be re-filled every 15,000 miles or so as a regular part of vehicle maintenance.

 

[mauricio_28]

...
Unfortunately, few companies are talking about developing small four cylinder diesels for the North American market. The only exception is VW, which will introduce a new 2.0L 4 cylinder diesel with 140hp and 200 lb ft in 2008.
Chip Haven

That Nissan and Toyota are not talking about developing four cylinder diesels may have to do with the fact that they have already developed them. Both Nissan and Toyota sell vehicles with 2.5L and 3.0L TDI engines already. The former (YD25DDTi) peaks out at 174hp and 297 lb.ft.

 

[chet]

I am a big diesel fan but lately have been questioning my loyalty!

Diesel up here is a fair amount more expensive than gas plus you pay a premium to buy a new diesel rig. Heck a cummins dodge truck is like $4 grand more for the diesel option.

Based on what I have heard there is only a limited amount of diesel production due to the way the refineries are equipped and biodiesel has its downfalls when it gets cold up here.

Plus unless they figure out the mileage thing the liberty was not getting that much better mileage over the gas model.

A diesel 4 door JK would be perfect for me but not if they charge $$$ for it.

 

[Redline]

Very valid points and concerns. The devil is in the details, not only the fuel and option costs, but also the rapidly changing emissions controls and maintenance requirements.

Not that newer vehicles/diesels don't interest me, but I'm confident that in the short term the best diesel options are the ones I already own. My 1996 F350 7.3L Power Stroke/T444E has very little emissions equipment on it, only a cat converter. Our 2000 Golf TDI does have EGR which is a problem as it does clog up the engine intake. But I plan to do a major clean and some mods in another 10k when it reaches 100k.

The engine option cost on new trucks is a concern, but on vehicles like our little Golf that get substantially better MPG (40-mpg city) fuel will have to almost double compared to gas to make the car less economical.

I am a big diesel fan but lately have been questioning my loyalty!

Diesel up here is a fair amount more expensive than gas plus you pay a premium to buy a new diesel rig. Heck a cummins dodge truck is like $4 grand more for the diesel option.

Based on what I have heard there is only a limited amount of diesel production due to the way the refineries are equipped and biodiesel has its downfalls when it gets cold up here.

Plus unless they figure out the mileage thing the liberty was not getting that much better mileage over the gas model.

A diesel 4 door JK would be perfect for me but not if they charge $$$ for it.

 

[haven]

diesel on european roads

Cars with small turbo diesel engines are very fuel efficient in real-world tests.

The Times of London took a Prius and a BMW 520d on a road trip from London to Geneva, about 500 miles. Then they added an additional 100 miles in city traffic. The 2.0L turbo diesel in the 520 recorded 41.9 mpg, while the Prius achieved 40.0 mpg. The torque of the diesel engine makes the 520d 2.7 seconds faster to 60 mph, too.

Audi France invited a dozen journalists to take new diesel-powered A4 four door sedans for a drive. The route went from Paris to Madrid, a distance of about 780 miles. The most fuel-efficient team recorded 52.9 mpg. The least efficient was 49.8 mpg.

BMW has no plans to import the 2.0L diesel to USA. The Audi A4s were powered by the same 2.0L turbo diesel that VW will sell in USA starting this summer.

Chip Haven

 

[haven]

national average

I read in the newspaper this morning that the national average price of #2 diesel fuel is $3.99. That's up from $2.80 a year ago, an increase of 42%.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

The current national average price for diesel fuel is 22% higher than the cost of unleaded gasoline. So a diesel vehicle needs to get 20%+ better fuel mileage to have the same fuel cost per mile driven. 20% is true for most diesels, making the cost of fuel per mile driven tip in favor of the diesel despite the higher price per gallon.

The price of every item delivered by truck will have to rise to cover this increased cost. Truckers are helping stretch each gallon by driving more slowly (or not, at least where I live).

Diesel fuel prices are higher than gasoline because

1. Worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils has been increasing steadily, particularly in Asia.

2. Almost all diesel fuel consumed in USA comes from refineries in this country. Refining capacity is tight and running at 90%+. If a refinery has difficulties or is shut down for maintenance, the supply gets tighter.

3. In the U.S., the transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs.

4. The USA Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon (24.4 cents per gallon) than the tax on gasoline.

 

[chet]

I didn't read the article but does it mention the higher cost to purchase a diesel? take a while to recoup that when the mileage is the same (factoring in the higher diesel cost)

 

[overlander]

I get 18mpg with my 2.8 Powerstroke, verus 10mpg with the original 3.9 V8 in my 110. I also have no ECU's or emissions due to the efficiency of this mechanical diesel engine, and I can run biodiesel.

I have no regrets.

p.s. distributors suck..

 

[haven]

total cost of ownership

"I didn't read the article but does it mention the higher cost to purchase a diesel?"

The web link is to a page provided by the Department of Energy, listing weekly average fuel prices by region, and for the USA as a whole. It doesn't talk about total cost of ownership issues, just fuel prices.

Thinking about total cost of ownership, in USA there's usually some price premium for a diesel engine. Not so in Europe, where diesel engines are often (not always) priced similar to gas engines with comparable output. Maybe it's a tax code thing?

The price premium you pay for a diesel varies a lot. In the Jeep Grand Cherokee, the premium is about $1600. For a 2006 VW Jetta TDI, the premium was about $2000. In the pickup truck market, it's $5000 to $7000.

It's worth remembering that you get some or all of that premium back when you sell the car. According to Kelly Blue Book, the 2006 Jetta TDI is actually worth up to $8,000 more at trade-in time than comparably equipped Jetta models witth the 2.5L or 2.0L turbo gas engines.

For total cost of ownership calculations, include the cost of service. The diesel engines usually need oil changes more frequently, and it usually take more quarts of oil to fill the crankcase. Otherwise, the maintenance is about the same up to 100,000 miles. At this point the modern gasoline engines need a more expensive service than their diesel counterparts.

Beyond 100,000 miles, the diesel starts to pull ahead. Diesel fuel is less corrosive and lubricates better than gasoline, so internal engine parts last longer.

Where I live, annual emissions inspections are more expensive for diesels than cars with gas engines. But you might get fewer speeding tickets in your diesel!

Chip Haven

 

[chet]

ha fewer speeding tickets? My dad has a 2007 dodge cummins and the thing is a rocket!

I guess I am just losing interest in diesel as it used to be a double edged win with better mileage and lower price per gallon. now that has changed I don't see as much advantage now.

Also whats going to happen in 5 years when more diesels are on the road and there is even more demand for it?

 

[sleeoffroad]

Not sure where to post this, but we helped the guys from
www.biodieseladventure.com out today. Did our bit for the environment, helped them with a rack and a bunch of jerry cans for the vegetable oil they collect. Also some wolf boxes and storage bag.

 

[Christian P.]

Christo,

This is AMAZING! My friends work for the BioDiesel association in Berkeley - I wonder if they've seen him. Looks like he's already passed SF.

Does he carry his own processing plant in the back??

http://gogo.web6.jp/bio/

 

[biere]

I just like diesels so keep that in mind when wondering how hard I crunched the numbers to compare a gas engine to my diesel, I crunched no numbers other than deciding I would not pay 5k to get a diesel in my jeep.

I have an 07 grand cherokee with the 3.0 diesel and it needs its oil changed at 6k or 12k miles, depends on what schedule you fall into with how you drive it. I will do 6k for the first change since I have a hard time waiting right now.

It does take a really spiffy synthetic oil to do this, but I don't know if the gassers can go 12k on an oil change and still meet factory warranty stuff. I figure the oil cost should be similar, I don't think I am cheaper than a gasser when all is considered, but I sure do like 6k or 12k mile oil changes.

I understand the fuel costs more, but once bought and in my fuel tank my range is pretty decent stock and a couple 5 gallon jerry cans will really make me comfortable as I learn how the mileage does offroad.

I just like a turbo and low end torque and I kind of like no spark plugs and what not. Today's diesels sure are complicated though so I am not about to say working on this engine is any easier or harder than a gasser, it just kind of depends on how you look at things.

Overall I think the diesel will not pay for itself, if it does that is great but I am not taking bets going either way since I like my jeep but don't really expect it to be perfect for its entire life.

But the diesel does offer some benefits when considering range on a gallon of fuel, fuel compatability with some other stuff I already own, and it is kind of cool to have the smallest engine offered in the jeep grand cherokee.