Do you feel the need to be unarmed and defensless while camping?

[2025 deleted member]

Well that changes things to vanishing rare occurrence. Maybe we should stay indoors to avoid lighting. Wait, a plane my crash into the house. Point is, packing a gun is more hazardous than most threats it might solve.

So you have a problem with people carrying?

 

[Lynnrb]

So you have a problem with people carrying?

Carrying a gun introduces another risk. This discussion has talked about threats and risk, but no one has brought up the risk of accidents when guns are around. There are probably better stats on guns accidents than on animal attacks.

True story: Three hunters were in the field hunting deer. Father, son and a friend. The friend heard a gun shot, then shortly followed by a ungodly cry. The friend went to the sound of the wailing and found the father holding his dead son. The father had accidentally shot his son. Friend told the father he would go for help and took off. A couple of minutes later he heard another gun shot. He returned to find the father had shot himself over his grief. Sad story but true.

 

[2025 deleted member]

Carrying a gun introduces another risk. This discussion has talked about threats and risk, but no one has brought up the risk of accidents when guns are around. There are probably better stats on guns accidents than on animal attacks.

True story: Three hunters were in the field hunting deer. Father, son and a friend. The friend heard a gun shot, then shortly followed by a ungodly cry. The friend went to the sound of the wailing and found the father holding his dead son. The father had accidentally shot his son. Friend told the father he would go for help and took off. A couple of minutes later he heard another gun shot. He returned to find the father had shot himself over his grief. Sad story but true.

So??

 

[Happykamper]

Loco, I pity weak minded people like you who are afraid to protect what you love.
As for me being a sociopath or a psychopath . I don't believe I saw you on the occasions I had to use my weapon.
As I said I served my country and my fellow brothers in arms well. I'm not sorry I did not come home in a casket , or like a few of my brothers with PTSD. I was sent to do a job , when it comes to kill or be killed the choice is very clear in my mind.
You just classified our military personnel as being mentally ill !
I hope to GOD every true American in this forum finds your view of our Mariens and soldiers as being sociopaths or psychopaths as discussing as I do.
Your freedoms come at a cost .

 

[zigsrig]

One thing that gets skipped over in most of these conversations, in my opinion, is the awareness and thought process that goes into (for most) carrying a firearm.

Personally, I haven't left my home without my firearm (to work, play or chores) for a long time. Not because I feel scared or insecure, but because that is how I have trained myself.

Just like any other "tool" we have at our disposal to help in a situation, having the skill set to use the tool is important. For me, once I started to carry i knew I needed to be as proficient with that tool as possible. This, through practice and training, lead me to "see" my surroundings in a different way.

For me, awareness about my whereabouts and the activities going on around me keeps me safer than someone who is blindly going about their day. This awareness has been sharpened because I have chosen to make sure I have trained myself to use my tools and more importantly how to avoid having to use them too.

That being said, and to be on topic, people scare me more than animals... Especially the people who you come across while in the back country.

 

[scanny]

Well that changes things to vanishing rare occurrence. Maybe we should stay indoors to avoid lighting. Wait, a plane my crash into the house. Point is, packing a gun is more hazardous than most threats it might solve.

I think that if you could protect yourself from lighting by carrying a small object on your belt you probably would do it. I don't see how carrying a gun can be more hazardous than bear who decided to have you for lunch. I used to carry gun a lot in military long time ago and for me a chain saw is way more dangerous tool than a gun.

 

[Lynnrb]

I think that if you could protect yourself from lighting by carrying a small object on your belt you probably would do it. I don't see how carrying a gun can be more hazardous than bear who decided to have you for lunch. I used to carry gun a lot in military long time ago and for me a chain saw is way more dangerous tool than a gun.

Exactly, carrying gun increases risk,(accidental injury), the question is what is more likely to hurt you, your mishandling the gun, one of your companions doing the same, or a threat that prompted you to carry the gun.
All kinds of threats has been mentioned, but no one has brought the danger of accidental injury by firearms. Accidental firearm injures is well documented, but it is not taken in to account in this discussion.
My personal experience is that misuse of guns is more likely to occur than other backcountry dangers.

 

[Christophe Noel]

So you have a problem with people carrying?

I do in many circumstances. If I'm in a group camping scenario and I don't know the skill level of people who have firearms, I'd rather they not bring them along. Same for the individuals I see walking the street. With law enforcement, at least I know they have had training. With Joe Blow walking around with a canon on his hip, I haven't a clue if he knows how to use it safely.

Lastly, when I was a business banker, I had to inform a client the bank had called-in his $200k line of credit. When he started throwing things in my office, the gun on his belt didn't make me feel too fabulous. The situation was only compounded when the police came and also saw the pistol.

There are many instances whereby I have a problem with other people carrying. Many.

 

[2025 deleted member]

I do in many circumstances. If I'm in a group camping scenario and I don't know the skill level of people who have firearms, I'd rather they not bring them along. Same for the individuals I see walking the street. With law enforcement, at least I know they have had training. With Joe Blow walking around with a canon on his hip, I haven't a clue if he knows how to use it safely.

Lastly, when I was a business banker, I had to inform a client the bank had called-in his $200k line of credit. When he started throwing things in my office, the gun on his belt didn't make me feel too fabulous. The situation was only compounded when the police came and also saw the pistol.

There are many instances whereby I have a problem with other people carrying. Many.

So it makes you uncomfortable? Or you think it should be illegal?

 

[Lynnrb]

So it makes you uncomfortable? Or you think it should be illegal?

This thread is not about legality. Only a fool would comfortable with strangers carrying gun around them.

 

[2025 deleted member]

This thread is not about legality. Only a fool would comfortable with strangers carrying gun around them.

Wow. I'm not going to even respond to that.

 

[Christophe Noel]

So it makes you uncomfortable? Or you think it should be illegal?

There are a number of issues at play here. As you point out, there is a legal position, but there are also social and moral mores. Just speaking to the social element, some people are a little presumptuous that their right to carry trumps all. Only a few times in the last several years has anyone been gentleman enough to ask if I mind if they join our group with a gun in their possession. I think that takes one helluva good person to take into considerations how others feel about having a firearm present. It's the asking that matters. In all cases whereby I was asked if I'd mind, I knew the gun owner, knew they had been well trained, and didn't mind.

Now, it is my personal opinion, and hopeful wish, that someday our governance will require all gun owners to meet some level of testing standard before being granted the right to carry. We do it to ride motorcycles, fly planes, and even if you want to wax someone's back hair for money, you have to be certified to do it.

 

[scanny]

Exactly, carrying gun increases risk,(accidental injury), the question is what is more likely to hurt you, your mishandling the gun, one of your companions doing the same, or a threat that prompted you to carry the gun.
All kinds of threats has been mentioned, but no one has brought the danger of accidental injury by firearms. Accidental firearm injures is well documented, but it is not taken in to account in this discussion.
My personal experience is that misuse of guns is more likely to occur than other backcountry dangers.

Every tool could be potentially mishandled, that's the responsibility of the person using the tool to know how to use it safely. And it's not only about guns - you can hurt yourself badly with a vehicle, axe, knife, saw, campfire - almost anything in the matter of fact. As least when you deep in wilderness you can hurt only yourself and it's up to you to decide what to take with you and what risk you are willing to accept. In my opinion handgun is the safest tool since you most likely won't have to remove it from holster: ) And if you really got in to situation when you need a gun I bet you would be glad that you have it.

 

[2025 deleted member]

There are a number of issues at play here. As you point out, there is a legal position, but there are also social and moral mores. Just speaking to the social element, some people are a little presumptuous that their right to carry trumps all. Only a few times in the last several years has anyone been gentleman enough to ask if I mind if they join our group with a gun in their possession. I think that takes one helluva good person to take into considerations how others feel about having a firearm present. It's the asking that matters. In all cases whereby I was asked if I'd mind, I knew the gun owner, knew they had been well trained, and didn't mind.

Now, it is my personal opinion, and hopeful wish, that someday our governance will require all gun owners to meet some level of testing standard before being granted the right to carry. We do it to ride motorcycles, fly planes, and even if you want to wax someone's back hair for money, you have to be certified to do it.

Our purpose to possess guns is much greater than just carrying in the woods. If we subjected ourselves to a "testing standard" devised by politicians, we would be giving up a right that we would never get back. It would be a pandoras box, every time a new politician came along they could change the standard of the test for any number of reasons.

 

[Dr. Cornwallis]

What a typically American thing to discuss....

My 2 cents based on personal expiriance? The need to be armed all the time is a sign of insecurity. There is no real need. In fact, the presence of a firearm in any given situation will tend to escalate things and make matters worse.

I am sure the gung-ho John Wayne's will point out that they will defend ( kill if needed) to protect x ( property, lives, etc....fill in your own blanks) with their last breath....yada, yada, yada. What is forgotten in this view is that such things always have consequences after the act....and I don't mean only legal consequences. The moral weight of shooting and possibly killing another person is often overlooked or ignored.

Acting calmly and collected will see you through most situations.


Off my soapbox now

Ill have to respectfully agree to disagree with everything you just said. With the exception that acting calmly and collectively will likely solve most social confrontations. I agree with that. Acting calmly and collectively will not solve them all though, so that's why I carry a gun.

Problem is....I am an American. Also, before moving over here, I was a active hunter and action handgun shooter. I am also very pro gun ownership.

I just don't think they are the answer to every ( or even most) confrontations. Years of traveling ( without a firearm) the world over has shown me that you need not fear the world. People, wild animals all can be dealt with without bullets

Statistically you're not likely to ever need a gun for self defense, and one isn't guaranteed to save you even if you need one and have one, however, seat belts aren't guaranteed to save you in a car accident yet we still wear them.

Survival is about putting the odds as much in your favor as possible. The cushy lifestyle of the modern first world has done a lot to cultivate weak minded people.

If people choose not to carry a gun because they don't see a need, that's fine, I'm not going to try and change their minds, but don't try and convince me I don't need one either, and don't try to deprive me of that right.

Man kind and Mother Nature in general has malice. That's something we can't change, ever.


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