Do you feel the need to have a weapon when camping
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precision powder
Backwoods Explorer
This guy being in my area is exactly why I carry every day. I refuse to become a victim. I don't expect my house to catch on fire but I still have fire extinguishers, same reasoning applies to why I carry. I am morally obliged to do everything in my power to help someone should it be needed, yet at the same time I will not become a headline followed by an article in the obituary section. If others don't want to carry, that's fine and it's their choice. I respect that choice as long as they respect mine.
A little reading in the news will bring up a story of a woman in NJ who was just killed by her stalker. She was trying to get a carry permit as a last resort since everything else failed (restraining orders, calls to the cops, security system, etc) yet the communist state of new jersey delayed her getting her license to protect her self, as a direct result of that she died.
Different worldview. If society isn't worth saving it's exactly because there are a lot of people who believe it isn't worth saving.
"Obligated" is a grey area, philosophically I believe the correct term is "right." A person may have a right to get involved, but not necessarily an obligation. It is up to the circumstances of the scenario and the individual whether he or she chooses to get involved. Granted, I'm thinking a bit more big picture rather than gun-specific intervention, but having a gun is just an extension of a particular situation. I am a very live and let live person -and an introvert- yet I also have a very classical sense of citizenship (think responsibilities) and believe society is what you make of it, ie, good people should do good if and when they can.
precision powder
Backwoods Explorer
Why would I help people? Because its the right thing to do plain and simple. That doesn't mean I will draw a gun on someone if they are getting slapped around, it means I will make a point to walk over there and say something or put myself between them. Who cares if it is your fight or not, there is someone that needs help and they should receive it. In my opinion if you walk away from someone that needs help because its not your fight you are just as guilty as the person doing the harm.
Where I live I have the legal right and I am legally protected to use deadly force to stop a felony, protect my life if it is in danger, or protect the life of another that is in danger. Does that mean my first response to to draw on someone, absolutely not. There are steps that need to be followed and criteria that needs to be met. Drawing is always the last option, but if thats what it takes to save a life than thats what I will do. I live in a very rural state, we don't just have police all over the streets like big cities do. I have a 30+ minute response time in my location by police on a good day. If I see someone getting beat up I am going to get in the middle of it and defuse the situation and let someone call for help. By the time police arrive the situation has been dealt with and the person will be immobile and held til they arrive. At the same time, I am not going to reach for the phone first if someone breaks into my house and shows intent to harm.
I would rather go to prison knowing I saved a life because I got involved rather than walked away (not that I would actually go because I was defending another, gun or not), than leave someone to fend for themself and know that I could have stopped their death. I think it makes someone a coward to walk away from someone in need. Most people will take off when someone else comes to the aid of a victim. A few years ago I was driving down Main Street and saw a guy throwing huge punches at the woman he was with, I stopped my car right in the middle of the road and tackled him. She was able to run into a near by store and call the cops. Myself and another man held him on the ground til police arrived. I can't imagine what would go through your head to drive by and let someone do that to another person. Letting another person get hurt or die is never the right thing to do, especially if you have the ability to stop it. There has never been a case in this state where a concealed carry holder has discharged their weapon and had charges brought against them for it. In addition there has also never been a case where a concealed carry holder in this state ever had any charge brought against them for using that weapon in a crime, or conspiracy to commit a crime. That information was recently made public by the chief of the state police. There have been several articles in the news praising people for stopping a crime, whether it was with the use of a firearm or not. The only reason it would get spun the other way is because main stream media searches for ratings by portraying people in a poor light. For instance what about the 24 year old man that saved the elderly man from being beaten by 7 young guys in a grocery store parking lot? He drew on them and they screamed this is not you fight, put the gun down and go away. He refused to comply and stayed with gun drawn. That saved the life of that man, by the time police actually arrived they young guys had all run off. The man was thanked by many for saving the life of someone he didn't know because it was the right thing to do.
My moral obligation has nothing to do with someone else respecting my choice to help them or not. I don't need to think about how someone else feels about my personal life choices when it comes to stopping violence. You claim that everyone is fighting to see my rights undone but I don't see that at all. Maybe where you live, but surely not where I live. In fact state wide studies show that people prefer to gun a firearm in the home and concealed carry licenses are on the rise. That is an indication that they are fighting FOR my rights not against them. You are making a lot of generalizations that I really see to be untrue. Especially those about law enforcement always siding against you, maybe that is the case where you live but that is far from the case where I live. I don't know if you live in a big city where law enforcement and the citizens are not on the same level of respect with each other but here, we know all the officers. They are not some secret society hell bent on going after every gun owner. They respect the right to carry and respect the right to self defense and the defense of others where applicable.
I personally still cannot see why you would drive by that person in need. Regardless of if your permit was valid or not, leave the gun in the car and walk out there, call the cops, draw attention to the scene, do something. Don't just leave them hanging, it doesn't always take a firearm to save a live, sometimes just getting out and going over there is enough. While I don't agree with your choice it was your choice and you are free to make it, just as I am free to make the choice to go in and help someone. If that means I get stabbed in the process, hit, stomped on, etc etc I will if thats what it takes to save a life or stop harm to another person. What good is calling the cops and watching if they are dead by the time they arrive? It has nothing to do with liability and what might happen to you after. It has everything to do with having a heart, being a human being, and caring about others around regardless of the situation.
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NevadaLover
Forking Icehole
Coward is a stupid word!! just because someone doesn't share Your view doesn't make them a coward!! I agree with KiwiKurt that society isn't worth saving!!
I carry for MY safety and the safety of those that I care about, NOT to protect an unknown adult who put themselves in a bad place, relationship or circumstance!!
those people are in those positions because of the choices they made and it is not my place to be their guardians! Does that make me a coward?
That being said, I would lay down my life to save a child in ANY situation regardless of the consequences!! I also would step in to help senior citizens, pets and most law enforcement depending on what I observe to be happening!
Carrying a firearm does NOT make you law enforcement or vigilante, it does not mean that you are required to play those parts in ANY instance, but it is your right to do so IF you feel it to be necessary!!
Remember that every time someone uses a firearm in a stupid way it gives the crybabies-handwringers-antigun morons a reason to scream for the outright ban on what our founding fathers decreed to be a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE of these United States!!!!!!!!!!
Support the 2nd Amendment in an intelligent manner so we can enjoy it forever!!
I carry for MY safety and the safety of those that I care about, NOT to protect an unknown adult who put themselves in a bad place, relationship or circumstance!!
those people are in those positions because of the choices they made and it is not my place to be their guardians! Does that make me a coward?
That being said, I would lay down my life to save a child in ANY situation regardless of the consequences!! I also would step in to help senior citizens, pets and most law enforcement depending on what I observe to be happening!
Carrying a firearm does NOT make you law enforcement or vigilante, it does not mean that you are required to play those parts in ANY instance, but it is your right to do so IF you feel it to be necessary!!
Remember that every time someone uses a firearm in a stupid way it gives the crybabies-handwringers-antigun morons a reason to scream for the outright ban on what our founding fathers decreed to be a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE of these United States!!!!!!!!!!
Support the 2nd Amendment in an intelligent manner so we can enjoy it forever!!
NevadaLover
Forking Icehole
?? A little clarification is in order!! are you referring to kiwis views on not intervening, or the fact that AMERICANS have the right to carry??
ABCanuck
Adventurer
Yes sorry, my statement needs clarification. Im referring specifically to a the situation he described in driving by someone who was being strangled and just kept on going. It's not about being a hero, or even "saving society". How is coward a stupid word? It has nothing to do with sharing different world views. I'm really sorry that kiwi has had some brutal experiences. It's unfortunate that our modern legal systems can be twisted in such a way as to punish an individual defending an innocent.
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precision powder
Backwoods Explorer
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with having a gun, even if I didnt have a gun I would do the same thing. The time I broke up that tackled the guy that was hitting a girl I didn't have a gun on me.
People don't always have a choice in the matter and its not always a choice that puts them in a situation where they are getting hurt. Do some people choose to stay with an abusive partner? Absolutely. That doesn't mean everyone that needs help put themselves in that situation. Its not someones choice that leads to them getting raped, its not someones choice that leads to them getting jumped in the street and robbed, its not someones choice to become a victim of knockout, its not someones choice to become a victim.
How would you feel if your wife was walking down the street and someone attacked her but everyone just walked by because it "wasn't there fight"? I bet you would be pretty pissed. Everyone that needs help is someones wife, someones child, someones mom, someones dad, someones best friend, someones someone important. If you live in such a state where helping someone in need will send you to jail its pretty clear that its not a state someone should be living in. You say society isn't worth saving, maybe thats because too many people walk by those in need or do not feel that changing laws to insure protection of those who need help is worth the effort.
Like I said its not about having a gun or not, I would do the same regardless. I don't think that saving a life is ever a stupid reason and I think most people would agree with that. Saving a victim has nothing to do with trying to be a hero or be a vigilantly. I don't go out looking for a fight, I don't go looking for criminals, that being said if I see it I will do something about it if I can. If that response means just yelling to draw attention to the situation, running over to get between to people, tackle someone to get them off another person they are assaulting, or drawing on someone using a firearm in a crime I will do it for the safety of others. You guys all seem to assume that carry owners are untrained in how to deal with situations or how to accurately fire a weapon if the situation calls for it. That is grossly untrue, 95% of the carriers I know train weekly. I personally have a range at my house that I train 3 nights a week on. I have been to countless trainings to put the odds in my favor regardless of the situation, everyone from talking down an aggressor, to disarming a person with a knife or a gun, first aid/cpr, hand to hand combat, defensive hand combat, every type of firearms training and situation you can think of, etc. Again, it has nothing to do with being a hero but everything to do with making myself a better person and able to have the skills and knowledge available to me should I ever need it. Before you say all that training is proof I am looking for a fight I am not, but should a situation present itself that you might need that information would you rather be a helpless sheep one someone with the ability to control the situation and push it in your favor? Why WOULDN'T you want to know that information and have that skill set available to you?
I guess though I just cannot wrap my head around your statement that every victim put themselves in that situation, I think that is a ridiculous claim and someone you tell yourself to justify not getting involved. Would you stop to help someone with a flat tire on the side of the road? You can die helping them change it if someone drives by and doesn't pay attention and side swipes you. What about someone stuck in a car that crashed? Would you drive by or stop to help them knowing that the car is on fire and could consume you? Or would you leave them to their fate? What about someone that is drowning? Would you dive in and go after them or let them figure it out on their own because its not your fight? What about someone who tripped and fell on a bunch of rocks down a hill? Would you leave them or go help them knowing you could possibly fall as well? All of these situations are no different than someone who got jumped in the street, car jacked, attacked, robbed, etc. Someone needing help is someone needing help, the only reason society wouldn't be worth saving is because people choose not to help others and only help themselves. Think about how much better the world would be if the people that lived in it stopped being selfish and helped those in need regardless of the situation. I bet it would be a hell of a lot better place and a place worth saving. Serious question though, if society isn't worth saving then why do the people that say that continue to have children knowing they are going to raise them in a place that is getting worse? Force them to live in what you deem is a horrible place that is worth no effort to save? Seems like you are forcing them to live a life time in what you refer to as a hell hole and to only look out for themselves. Seems like by having kids you are actually saving society by continuing to refresh the population.
Stumpalump
Expedition Leader
Right on.
rayra
Expedition Leader
It's pretty damned passive-aggressive to keep repeatedly damning a thing and then declaim it as 'just my opinion'. Own your fear/hate. Don't seek to mask your attacks by calling them your opinion. You are being more strident about YOUR 'opinion' than the folks here expressing their own support for lawful possession and use of firearms.
rayra
Expedition Leader
To answer the original question of the thread, yes. Federal and State law recognizes my camp as my domicile and as such I need no special permission to be armed for my self-defense and the defense of loved ones or even strangers. CA law provides for the latter as well. And frankly my self-defense is my business, my duty and I don't cede that to 'government'.
As to 'need', even in a city, calling 911 isn't fast enough response. What do you do when you are on the back side of nowhere, isolated? Where it's one ranger for 10,000 square miles and the local sheriff is even farther away?
I don't seek conflict or danger. I prepare for it, just like I prepare for earthquakes, vehicle breakdowns, 1st aid and all the rest. Firearms are another tool in the toolbox.
As to 'need', even in a city, calling 911 isn't fast enough response. What do you do when you are on the back side of nowhere, isolated? Where it's one ranger for 10,000 square miles and the local sheriff is even farther away?
I don't seek conflict or danger. I prepare for it, just like I prepare for earthquakes, vehicle breakdowns, 1st aid and all the rest. Firearms are another tool in the toolbox.
mezmochill
Is outside
I'm guessing most here that feel the need to be armed were born after 1980??
Anybody have stats. Not trolling, serious question.
Anybody have stats. Not trolling, serious question.
NevadaLover
Forking Icehole
Can't speak for the others but I was born long before 1980!
brushogger
Explorer
I myself was born in the late 1950's. One guy I used to camp with fairly regularly was born in the 1930's. We both were armed when camped in remote areas. If I'm in a busy campground such as a state park I don't usually carry, but have one locked up but accessible in the vehicle.
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