Do you feel the need to have a weapon when camping

[john101477]

First, realize that the post you are quoting is a slightly modified version of a joke that circulated a few years ago regarding lions in Kenya (or some other African country). Something to the effect of the small lion scat looks like such and such, and big lion scat looks the same but smells like pepper (from the pepper spray) and has small bells in it (which were apparently consumed when the bell-wearing pepper spray toting person was eaten). So don't take it that serious.

Sorry never heard that joke... There for I never took it as a joke. Kind of funny now that I see it as a joke

Second, just because someone doesn't feel they need to carry a weapon every time they step out of the [perceived] safety of their home, does not mean that they are a financial liability to you or other tax-paying citizens of this great country.

your right they are not a liability until something goes wrong... be it getting stranded or any other issue that might happen from someone being ill prepared be it a gun or a Spot.

, the implication that if someone wanders outside without a arsenal that would make a SWAT team jealous is unprepared, is dead wrong, and unwarranted.

I never once mentions needing to carry an arsenal. usually a pistol will do the trick. Yeah I know some folks will not go out with out their favorite full or semi automatic firearm. all I am saying is someone going out should be prepared in the best possible fashion. Firearm carry and proficiency should always be part of the preparation.

The tone of your post, along with a few others, is over the line. The conversation will remain active and polite if everyone (both sides) recognizes that carrying a weapon is a personal choice, and is NOT a requirement (legal or ethical) to go enjoy the outdoors. If you choose to carry a weapon because you feel insecure in the back country, that is fine. It is your choice (a choice that I fully support, BTW). But that does not mean you should chide others who feel differently.

It was kind of meant to sound that way
you yourself break your own rule by implying that someone that carries in the back country feels insecure. Why can't people simply understand that a gun is a tool, an essential tool just like your first aid kit or a knife.

 

[goodtimes]

I never once mentions needing to carry an arsenal. usually a pistol will do the trick. Yeah I know some folks will not go out with out their favorite full or semi automatic firearm. all I am saying is someone going out should be prepared in the best possible fashion. Firearm carry and proficiency should always be part of the preparation.

That part of my post was not directed strictly at you. I apologize if it appeared that way. It was intended for a wider audience. While I agree that proficiency should always be part of the preparation if you are going to carry a fire arm, I do not agree that a firearm should always be part of general preparation.

Why can't people simply understand that a gun is a tool, an essential tool just like your first aid kit or a knife.

Again, I agree with only part of your statement. Firearms are simply a tool. But I do not agree that they are an *essential* tool.

 

[YJake]

Again, I agree with only part of your statement. Firearms are simply a tool. But I do not agree that they are an *essential* tool.

I agree with that statement. They're not essential, but they sure do make life in the bush much easier and safer (Real safety in all but some cases too, not just percieved safety). I almost always have one with me while out, but I wouldn't feel naked without one.

Out in the bush without a nice blade on the other hand? Now we're talking!:Wow1: I'd be knapping up a peice of flint into a blade post haste!

Over all this is more of a personal question and must be assessed on a person by person basis. Everybody's needs are different based on where they travel and how they have been raised. Just pack your sidearm if you wish to, or don't.

Either way, don't let it stop you from enjoying the adventure! Because after all, that's what this is all about folks. :smiley_drive:

-Jake

 

[KG6BWS]

Firearms are simply a tool. But I do not agree that they are an *essential* tool.

In a way, I agree, but I also disagree with your statement.

While I have had several "encounters", 2 and 4 legged, I dont see a firearm as an essential tool for defense. For defensive purposes, I agree with you that it is a personal choice and I respect those who do not carry for that reason. After all, I firmly believe, and agree with others who have said the same, that your brain and situational awareness are the BEST defensive tools that someone can have, armed or not.

However, I do see it as an essential tool while in the backcountry because in an emergency it can be used for hunting for food and signaling for help. THats why I like my shotgun rather than a rifle. A rifle, for emergency hunting really is of no use. You cant kill a quail with a highpowered rifle. While you can kill big game wiht it, there is no guarantee that you will even see anything bigger than a squirrel. WIth my shotgun, and varrying rounds for it, I have the option of hunting anything from a squirrel to a moose. Between the amount of water that I carry (a LOT, even more when Im in the desert), my water filter, and my shotgun, I know that if I were stuck somewhere, I would not lack for food or water for quite sometime.

I firmly believe that anyone who goes into the backcountry should have a firearm for that reason, hunting, not defense. The way I see it, being prepared means having the tools necessary to keep yourself and your loved ones alive in an emergency. A gun should be part of that. Doesnt even have to be big. I choose to carry a shotgun for the above stated purposes, but a small .22 caliber rifle or pistol is MORE than adequate for emergency hunting purposes. With my 22 rifle, Ive killed quail, squirrels, and rabbits. I feel confident that I could kill a deer with it, although I dont beleive that a .22 is big enough to make an ethical shot, except under emergency circumstances.

And, as always, proficiency is the most important part. No matter what you carry, it does you know good if you cant hit what youre aiming at. Even a shotgun. A lot of people just think you point and shoot. With a moving target, or a distance any more than about 15', it just doesnt work like that. Practice, practice, practice....and may just one day save your life.

 

[john101477]

With my 22 rifle, Ive killed quail, squirrels, and rabbits. I feel confident that I could kill a deer with it, although I dont beleive that a .22 is big enough to make an ethical shot, except under emergency circumstances.

I would not suggest trying to kill an Elk or Moose with a slug.

Looking at it from your stand point on hunting and not protection - the .17 or .22 is really all you need. A good boy scout rifle is always handy. I do agree with your statement on ethical take down of a deer although I have seen it done with a shot just under the ear. Thats where proficiency and knowledge of the animal are essential.

Anyways folks I am headed out for a weekend of offroad adventure and camping. everyone have fun.

 

[KG6BWS]

I would not suggest trying to kill an Elk or Moose with a slug.

Looking at it from your stand point on hunting and not protection - the .17 or .22 is really all you need. A good boy scout rifle is always handy. I do agree with your statement on ethical take down of a deer although I have seen it done with a shot just under the ear. Thats where proficiency and knowledge of the animal are essential.

Anyways folks I am headed out for a weekend of offroad adventure and camping. everyone have fun.

1 oz. slug out of a 12ga from close range, under 50 yards, would easily kill an elk or moose. Shot placement is everything. Same slug with bad placement would fail to kill a deer.

Like I said, a .22 is really all you would NEED. I choose a shotgun because of the variety of rounds to hunt with. But a .22 pistol or rifle would be just fine for emergency food hunting.

Plus theyre just plain fun to plink with while camping. :sombrero: Just pick up your shells and targets please.:costumed-smiley-007

 

[spacer]

Hmm. Maybe I should have used a smiley on my last post....


As for myself, I think I mentioned before in this thread that I do carry adequate protection when in the boonies (provided the local enforcers don't have any really oppressive rules preventing it). While my 'urban' tool is a semi-auto, I tend to carry a revolver in the wild.

 

[goodtimes]

Sorry never heard that joke... There for I never took it as a joke. Kind of funny now that I see it as a joke

<<clicky clicky>>

 

[Wyowanderer]

Hmm. Maybe I should have used a smiley on my last post....


As for myself, I think I mentioned before in this thread that I do carry adequate protection when in the boonies (provided the local enforcers don't have any really oppressive rules preventing it). While my 'urban' tool is a semi-auto, I tend to carry a revolver in the wild.

X2
I prefer a revolver because of its simplicy and dependability. Dunk it in mud, sand, or water and it'll still likely work.
But I still love my 45 ACP. Thank goodness they're not women or I'd be in trouble.:sombrero:

 

[xtatik]

Why can't people simply understand that a gun is a tool, an essential tool just like your first aid kit or a knife.

Conversely, why can't you simply understand that a gun has never been considered one of "The Ten Essentials" of wilderness travel? I understand your right to carry one, and being a hunter and gun owner, I have no problem with that. But, only under very rare circumstances would I consider it essential. I'm always left struggling with why some people feel an emotional need to do so. I don't know where the fear is manifested.
It's like I said in another thread, I really don't think some people are as comfortable in the wilderness as others and some need to allay their fears by taking a gun. Some embrace the wild places, some fear them, and see them as something to be taken on, conquered and survived. The majority of wilderness travelers don't see it this way, and they enter and exit without incident. Many eventually have encounters and still don't feel a need.
I remember reading all the outdoor mags my Gramps had hanging around his place in Idaho. The covers were splashed with pictures of hunters or fishermen being attacked. Maybe, a huge Grizz hanging over a poor guy with a grimaced face and both hands grappling at his belt fighting to get to his sidearm. Or, more hilariously reaching for his hunting knife..........as if,......what? Or, suddenly confronted by a bull Moose.... It was frightening stuff to a kid just beginning his own history of wilderness adventures. They were great illustrations, but more than anything else, they illustrated an old ideology and ethic to wilderness travel and conduct. One based on fear, and thankfully these mags don't push that junk anymore.
I entered the outdoors with that fear over forty years ago. I've since learned it's rubbish. Most of the encounters I've had with wildlife are my most cherished moments, even the spooky ones.
People can make their jokes about "Bear Bells" all they want....I won't. I wear them and they have worked. I also knock at the door before entering a friends home, rather than suddenly appearing in their family room. It's just good manners. One of my favorite fishing spots is Slough Creek near the Lamar in Yellowstone....known Grizz turf......lots of Grizz!. It's not uncommon to be startled by a lone flyfisherman hooting and hollering as he works the trail upstream to the Beaver Pond sections of this valley. It's standard practice in some areas, and all that's needed to avoid encounters. You just need to respect them by letting them know your there.
I have a favorite local flyfishing spot where I encounter Black Bears about every third or fourth visit....yep, right here in So Cal. It's a gem of a spot, with huge Cedars forming a canopy that completely shades the small stream at the bottom. It's a tall narrow canyon, lined with ferns and springs and is fairly dark even on the brightest days. It's rarely visited, as best I can tell. It's loaded with foodstuffs and is a perfect place for our local bears to hang out during the heat of the day. It's surprising how fearful Black Bears are of humans in this area. I've seen a bear climb 30' of near vertical rock while making every desperate noise a bear could make...in a complete panic. That incident made me feel horrible.....like I was seriously trespassing. So now, I make a serious racket (bells, hollering, singing Zeppelin tunes) as I work my way up this canyon in order to give them all the time they need to stay ahead of me.

 

[KG6BWS]

I've since learned it's rubbish. Most of the encounters I've had with wildlife are my most cherished moments, even the spooky ones.
It's surprising how fearful Black Bears are of humans in this area. .

x2. The only animals I really worry about are lions. They bother me because theyre really not all that scared of humans and theyre silent. Bears at least make enough noise that you know theyre around and can avoid them, or theyll more likely run as soon as they get a whiff of you. Lions wont.

 

[captblack]

more with the gun/no gun arguments??? No one is going to change their mind one way or the other.

I will say however, in regards to all of the statistics, it comes down to education, supervision, and responsibility. It is completely safe to own a gun with children around if you use common sense. Guns are not the problem, lazy, irresponsible people are the problem. Ever get annoyed when someone let's their kids run around a store yelling and screaming out of control? What do you think their household is like and what if they owned guns? My guess is that the lack of supervision applies at home as well in most cases. People have forgotten what it takes to be a parent, that is the problem.

x2!!

 

[OverlandFJ]

When im not camping I always have my Glock 26 on me.
When I am camping I will always have either my S&W 500 or my Mossberg 590a1 on or near me.

This past weekend I went camping and there were small children around. On a small hiking/scouting trip near our camp we found numerous bear tracks in the area where there "shouldn't" be any bears. This is just one of the reasons to always be prepared.

 

[xtatik]

When im not camping I always have my Glock 26 on me.
When I am camping I will always have either my S&W 500 or my Mossberg 590a1 on or near me.

This past weekend I went camping and there were small children around. On a small hiking/scouting trip near our camp we found numerous bear tracks in the area where there "shouldn't" be any bears. This is just one of the reasons to always be prepared.

I hope you took the time to show the tracks to the kids...It would be a great learning opportunity if done properly. I'm curious as to whether or not you were able to ID the print, and why you say bears were not known to be in the area?

 

[xtatik]

x2. The only animals I really worry about are lions. They bother me because theyre really not all that scared of humans and theyre silent. Bears at least make enough noise that you know theyre around and can avoid them, or theyll more likely run as soon as they get a whiff of you. Lions wont.

Actually, cats are more fearful and reclusive than bears. They also tend to be a bit more alert to activity in their territories. Rarely will you see more than one in a single area due to strong territorial behaviors. Perhaps while mating you'll see two in a given place, but other than that, they live very solitary lives. While bears will make a habit of visiting human occupied places in order to forage....cats very rarely will.
Most of the cat attacks I've heard/read about involved very seriously stressed animals. Usually environmental/habitat stressors are what cause cats to act funky. Drought, and the resultant low food production or habitat removal/human encroachment, etc. are the stressors that will drive a cat to take chances well out of their normal behaviour patterns. Another are humans acting in such a way, or participating in activities that trigger a predatory response. They will frequent game trails for ambush opportunities. This is where the trail runners and mtn bikers get nailed. Again, making a ton of noise that can be heard well in advance of your approach is the best avoidance method. Unfortunately, trailrunners and mtn bikers being preoccupied, don't heed this advice enough.